Sarah Hurley on Turning Creativity into a Superpower

Lyric Kinard (00:01.176) Hello friends, we are here today with Sarah Hurley, who has an absolutely fascinating business model and journey to where she is. So I'm just going to ask you, Sarah, introduce yourself to our people. Tell us a little bit about what you do. Sarah Hurley (00:10.55) Okay, it's been quite the journey. So I started my business 15 years ago in the creative industry and it started off as a retail business. It moved into a licensing business. And then two years ago, which is how we met, I launched the Sarah Hurley Academy, which is helping creatives grow and develop and be more successful with their businesses. So that's been a really exciting journey to give back. I still run my other businesses in the background, so there's a lot going on. But it's been really fun and really lovely to do all these things. Lyric Kinard (01:02.402) Who is your audience? Who do you serve? Sarah Hurley (00:53.612) So primarily it's women like me. And that's really how it started is from my own experiences. I realized that there's this gap in the market. And I think you've probably seen this yourself that in the creative industries, I'd say 99 % of people come at it as this is my art. This is what I love to do. I'm going to create a business out of it. And I was the 1 % that came at it. Like I am going to start a business. My business is first and foremost, and I happen to be creative. Sarah Hurley (01:23.326) And so I just thought, well, you know, I have this like 1 % skill so I can give that back and help people and do it in a really creative way that actually resonates and communicates with those people. So 99 % of my audience are women in the creative industries and they are growing and scaling that business or looking to start a business. Lyric Kinard (01:59.342) Right. And it is a giant hole in the market of business support in the creative industry where we do come at it often without a business degree, without a business background, just doing the art, doing the creative thing that we make with our hands and what better way to support yourself than to use what you love to do it. But There's so many things around it that we don't know because we've never done it, right? So what are the kinds of things that you teach your people in the Sarah Hurley Academy? Sarah Hurley (02:28.142) So it's everything from those really base fundamentals of like how to start your company, how to sell your product, how to market your product, how to find your customers, all of those things. And there's a lot in it about mindset as well. And not just in a kind of woo woo, think positive and it'll all be fantastic kind of way, but in that really, you know, really solid way of don't doubt yourself because you're a creative first. Being creative is a superpower. And it means that you actually will be really good at business because you're used to adapting and changing, which is one of the biggest business skills you can have. So there's a lot about that as well as just shifting that mindset of actually what you've got there is fantastic and you don't need permission to do it. You don't need to anyone to come along on a white horse and be like, wow, you're amazing and scoop you up. But also you don't know what you don't know. So just showing people those things of like, have you thought of this? Have you done this? Because fundamentally they're probably thinking about that art and creation process first and the rest of it seems like such a slog and hard work and it's just going do you know what if you if you put your creative mindset to the business business is really creative too and you can make it exciting it doesn't have to be boring. Lyric Kinard (04:00.075) There's so many people don't realize that part of owning and running a business, being an entrepreneur is creating. It's imagining something that doesn't exist yet and bringing it into existence. And creativity, I think, is just putting things together. Things are out there and you figure out how they work together in beautiful and amazing ways. Now you work your own business where you started was with product design and licensing, am I correct? Tell us a little bit about that. How did you get started with your own business? Sarah Hurley (04:23.404) That's right, Sarah Hurley (04:29.39) So I actually trained to be a lawyer and I know completely, completely different shift, right? And then I realized about two months into my first internship, I suddenly had this realization of, my gosh, I don't want to be a lawyer. Like, what do I do now? And so I took this marketing job for a little while because I was like, I'll do this. It made sense to me. It was kind of okay. Sarah Hurley (04:58.7) And I got laid off from it and it sort of shifted my life because I thought I really wanted to do this thing and then I didn't. And then there was this thing I didn't really want to do and I got laid off and I was like, I might as just do whatever I want because you cannot guarantee anything's going to work out. Right. So I emailed some people just like, can I illustrate for you? That was my first thought. And a TV shopping channel got straight back to me and went, don't show that to anyone. Come and see us. And four weeks later, I launched my first two products on live shopping TV, which was insane if I think about that now. And it kind of grew from there. So it went from like those first products on shopping TV to being picked up by retailers, marketplaces, people were seeing my work. And that's really how licensing developed from that was because I was like, I cannot service all of these retail orders in such, because this was like six to eight months that all of this happened. And you can't go from like two products in one show to, was literally being requested like hundreds of products and I could not service all of that. I was working from home, I had no staff. So my first products were craft products. They were digital card making kits. They weren't that good, so please don't go hunting for them because I really don't want them coming back around. Lyric Kinard (06:32.32) It's kind of fun though, like I teach people video and say, go look at my first YouTube videos, which are the worst on the planet, you know, and here we are, you know, not overnight success, but you can see a progression. And when you can see how bad the first things are, it's so lovely to see where you've ended up and where you still have to go. Sarah Hurley (06:43.272) Yeah, I mean, there's definite progression for sure. So yeah, that turned into licensing and here we are. So like 15 years down the road and still licensing and retail and all of that kind of stuff and in multiple sectors now, all creative, but things like home gift, stationary, know, multiple things, not just craft, which has been lovely. So they're all very creative and all linked. So that's nice. Lyric Kinard (07:26.364) that's lovely. So how did you how did you progress from creating your own brand, your own product, your own things that you then licensed? What is the progression that led you to where you are now? I know you saw the hole and you fixed it. So tell us some of the steps you took in between. Like what was what felt easy and what was the struggle in building the system that you've got now. Sarah Hurley (07:46.102) I think truthfully, it all felt like a struggle at the time. And only looking back do I go, that was the easy bit. And I didn't realize like, if I look back at that first year, I felt like such an uphill climb. And when I look back, I'm like, that's where the power was, because no one saw anything. And it was great. And I'd say that there were markers. So the five year mark is where I'm very much pivoted to licensing and was like, Sarah Hurley (08:13.518) That's my focus now. And I started developing brands and niches and specific products for specific niches and not just being a generalist before that. was like, this is pretty, I'm going to make that and that's pretty and I'm going to make that. And it was very kind of magpie-ish and like, I'm going to do this and this and all sparkly. And then it's shiny object syndrome. I had it in absolute bundles because everything was growing so fast. And I was just like, yeah I can do that, I can do that, I can do that. I never said no to anything, I've done everything and then at year five I was like I cannot do everything anymore, I just can't. That was the year that my business grew 500 % in one year and that yeah, yeah it was, was yeah. Lyric Kinard (09:08.588) I mean, people think, wow, that's amazing, that's unsustainable for a one person, right? Sarah Hurley (09:03.534) massively unsustainable. Well at that point there were four of us but from year five to year six I went from five people to 22 people. Exactly and that again was like such a learning curve but that's when I realised actually this is not what I want, this is not how I want it to be. So I went from this like massive like whoosh I'm going to do all the things. Sarah Hurley (09:32.194) to sitting back in year five and going, I don't want all the things and that's okay. I don't want to do all that. So we took it back to a six person team, just reduced everything down, focused on what I love and what I'm good at. And that's when I very much set up like systems and a playbook and right, this is how we do it now. And it's all very intentional and less shiny object. And that has been how I've done everything from now on because that's sustainable and it grows and it's consistent and it's manageable and I don't lose my mind. Lyric Kinard (10:22.137) So having a specific idea, it's called a business plan, right? A goal, something that you imagine where this is what I want my business to look like. And then knowing the steps to get there is, you know, so many of us just kind of flounder around, try this and try that and try that. And if you don't know where you want to end up, right? If you don't really think about that ahead of time, you... Lyric Kinard (10:51.277) I mean, success does happen, but it's exactly like you experienced, right? It's like, my gosh, do I really want all the things? And I tend to go in like five to seven year cycles of getting excited and saying to yes, to do many things, right? Until I have the breakdown and go, I can't do all the things. Lyric Kinard (11:18.297) Yeah, so and then having what I heard you say is that you specifically chose what you wanted, what felt good to you, what aligned with your values and what you wanted to do and then made the plan in that direction. Sarah Hurley (11:23.84) Yeah, absolutely. Because I didn't have a plan for that first five years, right? It was just very much reaching for everything. And it was at year five that I got intentional and went, I'm going to make an actual plan of where I want to go. And when I look back on it now, when I speak to people about business planning, I think we all get bogged down by these templates we're given by the bank with like spreadsheets and projections and all of those kinds of things. That's not what I'm talking about at all. I'm just talking about like, you would not go on a road trip without a map. right? If you say I want to drive from here to here, yes, you'd probably get there, but you'd get lost because you go off on all these detours and tangents and that's pointing the wrong way and you know, all of that. So it's just literally having this roadmap of I want to get here. These are the points I want to hit. Let's see what happens. So there's no kind of I'm not sitting here doing spreadsheets and projections and all of that kind of stuff. I'm just literally setting a roadmap for myself and my business. to ensure I get to my destination in the most effective way possible. Not the quickest, the most effective. Lyric Kinard (12:43.047) That's one of the things I love about what you do is that you understand the process of building a roadmap. You don't provide a template. You do things exactly like I do, right? When you serve your butting entrepreneurs and women who want to take their creativity and build a successful business out of it. What we do is we, having somebody to guide you through the process of understanding, I do need to imagine where I want to go. I do need to figure out what it is I actually, actually want and not look at all the shiny objects. And that's what I swear half of my coaching in the academy is like focus, focus, focus. Remember where you said you wanted to go. Does this actually get you there? It's beautiful. It's amazing. You can change your focus if you want to, but it's going to take you off track. I'm sure you experience that all the time, right? Sarah Hurley (13:32.462) Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's things that I get offered that don't fit my plan at all. And that's why I always say to people is like, does it feed the end goal? And that for me is, I always say, right, there are five reasons that people start a business. So there's like money, legacy, fun, freedom, can't remember the other one. And, like, figure out what it is you want, it can be more than one, and there's no wrong answer. So if you just say, I just want a bunch of money, cool. Okay, so someone offers you an opportunity and it's really exciting, but there's no money. Don't do it because it doesn't feed your goal. If your goal is that you just want to be famous, you don't care about money. You just want everyone to know your name. You want your face on packaging, blah, blah. And someone offers you something, it's a bunch of money, but you have to be anonymous. It's no again, right? But if they offer you your face on the packaging for half the amount, it's yes, because now it fits your goal. So you have to really understand why you're doing what you're doing. So for me, initially it was about money, just didn't have any, right? And then when you get money, I was like, what I really want now is fun and freedom. That was the year five moment of now I can choose. I can go, right, I want to do this. I don't want to do that. So there were things that, you know, people who have followed me for a while will notice, like I didn't do TV shopping anymore because I didn't find it fun. I don't want to be famous. I like to be at home. So for me, that was a very quick. okay, now I can cut that out. I don't have to do that anymore. That's really easy decision for me to make. And something like the Academy, for instance, where I had no, that was that was done out of passion, not out of money. So I had no like path to the income from that. But it was fun. And it was something I wanted to do. And so I could do it. So I just think it's important to understand why you're doing what you're doing. And how does it fit into that end goal? Because if it doesn't fit, don't do it. And don't sacrifice what you want most for what you want now. That's a big one. Lyric Kinard (15:46.0) That is so good. There's an opportunity cost to saying yes to all of the things. So if you lose sight of your target, of your end goal, it takes you away from your end goal. Sarah Hurley (15:49.934) Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Is the distraction worth it? Can you make it up? it, is it, does it balance out? Like just say it's something like, okay, I'm gonna, you I'm going to go to the gym, but I really want that pizza. Right. How long is it going to take you to reach your goal? Now you've had the pizza. Is it worth it? Is it like, well, it's only an extra week of training, so I'm just going to do it. Or does it totally take your effect? Like think about it in those really easy terms of like, where does it get you to how much of a distraction is that thing? And if it's too much of a distraction, it's really easy to say no once you're so aligned on your values and your motivation. Lyric Kinard (16:40.687) All right. Let's switch gears a little bit and talk about how your business now is structured. What is your customer journey when they come to you? When we look at the Sarah Hurley Academy and the website, there's so many cool things there. So tell me how you mean customers to come to you and what the journey is that they take through the offerings that you have. Sarah Hurley (16:55.448) So the Academy is still really new, right? So that's why there are like a number of paths you can take is because I really need to understand what people want and need. So you can come into it and try out a free course. If you don't know who I am, then the easiest thing is to come in and try a free course and decide if you like the way I give you information, because there are a lot of business mentors out there and you should always pick someone that you relate to and who you can. who you trust right to give you that information the way you need it. Sarah Hurley (18:44.63) I think it's important that you find the right person, someone who you can be guided by, who you trust and who you relate to. So the free courses are there so you can see how I structure courses and all of those kind of things. If you are a really established entrepreneur and you're like, you know what, I've got everything sorted and I know exactly what I'm doing, but I'm just falling down in this little area here. So maybe I need to learn about licensing or I want to try wholesale or whatever. So then you can come in and do one of my standalone courses. And you just do that and that's it. And then if you need some extra support, like maybe you want that kind of co-founder effect without a full co-founder, you can get the monthly membership where you get access to absolutely everything. You get a quarterly mentoring call and you get access to opportunities like the Sarah Hurley Pavilion and the creative pitch and there's more to come. So trying to just give a little bit of everything to everyone, whatever stage they're at. Lyric Kinard (19:43.954) What is the pavilion? Sarah Hurley (19:46.784) So the Sarah Hurley Pavilion is a way for small businesses to showcase themselves at major trade fairs without the expense. So basically I host the pavilions. You visited my pavilion at Creativation and I have a big space and within that you have a smaller space where you can showcase your product. And what you also get is me there on site. So for instance, if I feel that maybe you didn't. Lyric Kinard (20:43.541) Excellent. And that is where I saw you first and met you. it's such a... Doing things in community can be so much easier. And when you're with somebody who is the right person for you, who is the right mentor for you, it gives you such a boost. mean, often I… ask people who are like, really want to build a course or I really want to do this for my business. And it's like, well, why haven't you done it yet? You know, sometimes they already know all of the things and it's just the support of a community, somebody that keeps you focused and has those, we don't know what we don't know yet. You so having somebody who's farther along the path, you know, you and I, we don't know everything either, not even close. But we've been doing it for a while, right? So I love the idea of the Sarah Hurley Pellet Villain. Sarah Hurley (21:42.516) Do you know what I think? I think that if you start thinking you know everything, whether you're five years in, 10 years in, 15 years in, 20 years in, if you start thinking you know everything in everyone, then you're standing still and you're making a mistake. I never think that. I always want to meet new people. I'm never like looking over people's shoulders of like, who else is around? Like, I always want to meet everyone. I want to talk to everyone. I want to learn everything and soak everything in and I'll go to talks and seminars and workshops and...all of those things because I think yeah you should never stop learning ever. Lyric Kinard (22:19.822) Right. It's like we have a, the way, the way I tell my people is we have a goal and we have things that we want to accomplish. And the closer you get to the goal, I mean, it can feel like a problem, but it's just growth. The goal moves your, your sight moves the higher view you have, the more you can see and the more you know, you can reach. Right. So there's always that gap between. where you are and what you want to achieve. And that's just growth. Sarah Hurley (22:56.99) Yeah, absolutely. And I always say to people as well, even when you've got to where you want to go, you can't just sit still because everyone else is continuing to move forward. So you still have to move a little bit all the time. Even just to stand still, you have to move a little bit. And if you get complacent, you're literally going backwards. So always talk to everyone, learn everything, do all the things. Lyric Kinard (23:21.902) Yeah, absolutely. Tell me about the creative pitch. What is that? Sarah Hurley (23:27.168) So the creative pitch is something that I'm so excited about. It's kind of like a mini shark tank, but not as scary. So you come and talk to me and sometimes I'll have a couple of experts with me as well. And you pitch your business, product, brand, startup completely confidentially and you'll get on the spot advice, mentoring. We try and do introductions. That's why I experts involved. if you just say you you know, know I've got a few people on wholesale I'll be like right. Let's get a distributor in the room. Let's get someone in with me who can ask these right questions who can introduce them to people and I have invested in a couple of companies myself because they've just been too good and I couldn't let them walk out the room and but it's just a way to get really honest feedback and Just and know that you're kind of safe. No one's gonna walk out the room with your idea because Lyric Kinard (24:05.424) myself because they've just been too good. Sarah Hurley (24:18.326) That's a really important thing as well is I've seen people, especially in the creative industry, they'll show their product to someone and the next thing you know, like they're made to feel like, that's not good enough. You're a bit silly. And then they'll have like an almost identical thing. And it's like, if you come to me first, you'll always have the advocate that will go, yep, I saw that. I can back you on that 100%. You had it first. So you'll always have that in me. I saw it first. Don't you worry. I've got your back. Lyric Kinard (24:28.078) Yeah, and you know the system behind it because there are business systems and protections and processes that if you haven't done it before you have no idea. Sarah Hurley (24:59.784) Exactly. And I think as well that when you're new, you're excited. You want to show everyone and tell everyone, I'll be like, woo! Or you go completely the other way you're like, I'm not showing anybody. And it's like, well, no one's going to know about it. You have to show someone. You have to get someone on board to show somebody because otherwise someone else will think of it anyway. it's just, it's achieving that balance of like, who can I trust? Where do I go with it? And how do I take the right steps to get it out there, but also protect myself. Lyric Kinard (25:28.496) Right. And that atmosphere of trust and collaboration is so important when you find that in a community. It's the thing that I think really, really lifts people the quickest. Sarah Hurley (25:44.99) Yeah, absolutely. And actually, that's why with the Academy, I put my name on it. I don't put my name on many things. Like I build brands, I build specific brands that don't have my name on them. But with the Sarah Hurley Academy, I called it the Sarah Hurley Academy because I want to put my face on it. I want to be the person that you trust. I want you to know that I'm there. So I went through so many different things that I could call it, you know, the small business this and the creative business that and then I was like, no. I'm gonna call it the Sarah Haley Academy. It's mine. It's my baby. It's my passion project. I love it. I stand behind it 100 % and put my name on it. Lyric Kinard (26:23.948) Excellent. And even if you're only developing one small online class, that connection between you and the people you serve and that trust that is built and that it's you are your brand, right? And especially anything teaching anything where you're guiding somebody on their journey, you need to be trusted and authentic. Now this doesn't mean perfect. I bet you have stories about, no, I wasn't always perfect. I might not be perfect now. What are some of the hiccups and the interesting struggles that you've had along the way that you're a real person like the rest of us? I we look at the finished product all the time and think, whoa, they've got some secret sauce they were born with. how could I ever get there? But we don't realize it's a very long journey to get there. Sarah Hurley (27:30.486) Do you know, I think sometimes perfect is too perfect. And I've seen people that have got like over edited kind of content and stuff. And for me, it takes the heart out of it. And I never over edit. And if you read my stuff, if you read any of the modules in my course, if you read my book, if you read any blog posts that I write anything, I write as I speak and I literally just tidy up the mess kind of thing. But basically I do that. And I just think that for me, it's about being who I am because as I said to you earlier, I genuinely believe that if you want to learn something, you should learn from someone you really relate to. You know, you wouldn't take marriage guidance from someone that have been divorced seven times, right? Unless they said, this is why I messed up seven times and this is how I've learned, right? So you need to learn from someone who has done what you want to do, or is doing what you want to do. Because that's the other thing as well. I see a lot of people who are like, yeah, done it. Back in the eighties, I've done this great thing. And you're like, That advice is 40 years out of date. Like literally I was in like primary school when you were doing that. So you need someone who is currently doing what you want to do. And I think the more authentic that comes across the better. And you know, not everything of mine is perfect. There are little mistakes because my, you know, sometimes I'm typing something and my brain works faster and I'm like, I just need to get it out. And there'll be like little mistakes and someone will go, did you know you'd like put that wrong? And I'll go, okay, I'll correct it. Like, I don't mind that. Sarah Hurley (28:59.605) I've also, you know, I'd done a seminar at a trade show last year where there was like a couple hundred people there. And someone in the Q &A session asked me why I set the Academy up. And I've spoken about this so many times, but this day it just hit slightly differently. And I was telling the story of like how I'd been widowed and you know, all of that. And it just hit slightly different that day. And I cried and I was like, I am so sorry. Like I am not a crier, but just that day it got to me. But I think it showed again, like I'm a real person and I have bad days and I have, you know, weak days if you want to call them that. And it is what it is. I don't because I am who I am. There's nothing you can really say to me that I'm going to go, I'm so embarrassed because it's who I am and I'll own it. Like it's completely fine. And I think that's what I try and encourage in everyone that I mentor is if you're yourself, no one can ever call you out because you'll just go, Yeah, I did do that or yep, I did mess that up or I learned from that and that's fine. Lyric Kinard (30:05.169) So what are some of the bumps that you had along the way? Sarah Hurley (30:14.102) I mean, there are lots in terms of things like setting stuff up and software and all of those kinds of things. I think the Academy has been the smoothest thing I've done purely because I went very, very slowly. I soft launched it. I've shot an open membership a few times to allow things to settle down. in the middle of like a big content creation spell at the moment. So I'm actually closing membership. Depending on when you're watching this is in July and closing membership in July for a little bit just to add more content and because we're bringing on like a major new partnership. So there are bumps, but I just kind of think I'm just learning from it and I'm growing it and that's fine. I don't look at it like, oh no, I messed up because I don't really see it as a mess up. I just see it as that's the part of the journey. I'm still learning. I'm still, you know, putting stuff out there. I never went on there saying I'm a teacher. I went on there saying I've done this and I can show you how I done it and I can. help you do it, you know, I never went on there proclaiming to be perfect, I'm just being real. And if you appreciate that and you want to hop on board, I'd love to have you. Lyric Kinard (31:20.401) Right. I could tell stories about the major public mess ups. Like if there's a number for a long time in the global quilt connection business, I was not allowed to send out any newsletters with dates in them unless somebody else had checked them because I just the numbers end up I don't it's like magic between my brain and my fingers and the keyboard they just turn into something else, no matter what I was thinking. Right? And then it's a whole bunch of customer service emails. And then it's like, nope, just send it out. So my people know that I get stuff wrong. And I'm always telling them, if there's a date that doesn't match this other date, let me know, because I messed up again. That's just what I do. We're all okay with it. It's a lovely industry to be in because we actually are all okay with it. We understand and we get over it and it all works out. It all works out eventually. So you, I think we were talking, what is the platform that your website and your membership is on? How is it actually structured? What is the behind the scenes here? Sarah Hurley (32:41.504) So I was using Zendler, which is I think is what you saw. I was using that platform, which I would recommend, by the way, if anyone is looking to do a membership of courses, I think Zendler is a great platform. But we recently changed website provider to Shopify. So we're now changing to a Shopify app for all the courses. It works really well, which just means everything's really built in because what I was doing was diverting people over to a Zendler site. And it was just, it got a little bit messy when people were kind of going back and forth. Sarah Hurley (33:09.876) So I've just changed it to a plugin Shopify app and that works much better for me personally. But both platforms have been excellent. And the good thing about Zendler is you can host multiple courses, which is what I was looking for at the time, because I wanted to kind of try things out and see what people wanted and all of that. Lyric Kinard (33:39.184) Right. None of the on-demand course platforms do physical goods and a lot of your business is built around that. So Shopify is definitely if you have to collect shipping addresses and keep track of inventory and all that kind of stuff. What is the name of the plugin that you use? And I'm really curious to how hard was it to set up? Sarah Hurley (34:05.65) It's a little bit more complicated on Shopify because you have to use an app called Tevello to build the courses. And then there's another app which escapes me, but I'll get it if you tell it to you later, if you want to put it in the show notes, where you have to build out the subscription piece. So the subscription and the app and the courses separate, but it's so you can kind of put it as it's almost like a physical item in the store. Sarah Hurley (34:31.808) So people buy the subscription in the store, the subscription gets set up and then you go through to the course, but it's all hosted within Shopify. So there's no, to the customer, it's much cleaner. To the setup for me was a little bit more tricky, but we're still in that kind of transition process. And now we've got the structure in place. It's brilliant. It's just a, you know, was just a couple of weeks of head aching kind of getting that structure set up. Lyric Kinard (35:05.849) What does your membership look like? What does it look like? What do people do and is that in the app as well? Sarah Hurley (35:18.356) Yep, so the membership is in the app and all of the modules are hosted there. So there's different modules on different things. And generally it's me kind of learning something or realizing something or thinking, you know, someone like people need this or someone asked me a question. go, my gosh, I know lots about that. So then I'll structure a module and I'll put it on there. So that's where all the content lives. There's digital copies of the magazine, the Academy magazine on there as well. And I also upload different talks. So for instance, at Creativation, I gave a talk on trends and that's on there, I recorded that and put that on there. So little bits that, you know, if you weren't there, you didn't miss out kind of thing as well. So everything you log in and literally everything is there for you to click through and you can, you don't have to like complete one module to start the next. You can dip in and out of whatever you're struggling with at that point. Lyric Kinard (36:10.991) Right. So it's like a multi-course walk in and see what all the different opportunities are. Do you have a discussion group? Something where live chats and feeds are going on? Sarah Hurley (36:26.696) Yeah, we have a Facebook group at the moment, which is a free to join. It's just a community group where everyone can come and ask questions. And I also do lives in there sometimes about different things that maybe we've done courses on or if there's been a lot of questions about something, then I'll do like a little live about it. You know, when there's events coming up like the pavilion and things like that, I'll go on and discuss and ask questions in real to answer questions in real time. And so yeah, our Facebook group is a really lovely group of entrepreneurs. Lyric Kinard (36:59.577) Okay, so that's the community that's free to join and then the membership just gives you access to all of the courses and lectures and whatever content that you put up. But the inside the membership is not the communities where that kind of live interaction discussion kind of thing takes place. Sarah Hurley (37:20.359) Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Lyric Kinard (37:23.311) Are you planning to stay on Facebook or what do you feel about that? Because I've done really successful, lovely groups on Facebook. It's been an amazing place to go and find that community and specialized information in groups of people. And a lot of my clients and people are moving away from Facebook now. Sarah Hurley (37:51.934) Yeah, I understand that. mean, obviously on Facebook, you don't own your audience, right? You're building on borrowed land. So I completely get that. At the moment, I don't have any massive plan to change. I've built out a really good email list. So I also have, you know, email people and I have a really good open rate and things like that. So no immediate plans to change. But I'm sure that once this restructure and everything is done, it will probably be something I look at at the end of the year. I do think Facebook is just so quick and easy, but I know that there's a lot of other community things popping up, so never say never. Lyric Kinard (38:29.38) Right, right. It's always interesting to see. Like I really do love Facebook groups, but I've also seen them disappear overnight. again, like you said, you're building on borrowed land. if you're thinking communities on Facebook are free, easy, wonderful, you can make them private, you can make them public. There's so much you can do with them. And at the same time, just keep in mind for your business that you don't own it. Sarah Hurley (39:07.132) Exactly that. Yeah. And like I said, the the Facebook group is not if I was hosting courses there and hosting videos there and all of that, I think, you know, I would be advising myself not to do that. And because it is such a tiny part of it, I'm not overly worried about it right now. And because I think I've got bigger fish to fry into in like, you know, restructuring the courses and all of that sort of thing. But it's definitely on the list down the road. Yeah. Lyric Kinard Well, the thing that you said that was key was that you've got your email list built. You own your email list. These are the people who have chosen you. It's not random. They have invited you into your inbox. So as if, my friends, if you are doing Facebook groups and things like that, also remind people to get onto your email list. So if something happens, you can still contact them and figure out where to go from there. Sarah Hurley (40:05.686) Absolutely, yeah. I tell people that all the time, even like in the retail space, if you're working in marketplaces, putting your products on marketplaces, you don't own that. You're renting a store. It can be pulled from you at any time. So just make sure you always have your own website, your own channels, your own customer. Lyric Kinard (40:23.698) Absolutely, and know your customer and how to serve them and what they need. What do you see? What is your next big goal? Where are you headed? Sarah Hurley (40:37.526) I'm about to launch another major new partnership, which will be fantastic and just provide more opportunities inside of the Academy. So that's my, and I'm also launching a range of published products for the Academy, which will be launched in November of this year. So that's really exciting. So that's my next Academy milestone. In my licensing business, I've just launched Hurleywood Studios, which is a content production studio that has licensed content, which is very exciting. And I'm still building all of that, but that's, you know, that's a mission as well. So yeah, there's always something going on. Lyric Kinard (41:24.37) It's so much fun to see when a business is successful and you get to a certain point, it opens up so many more possibilities, right? Money is fantastic and great, but mostly it's an amplifier. It allows you to expand the reach of what you can accomplish as you get there. I love that this is happening for you. It's so exciting. Sarah Hurley (41:53.288) Yeah, I think money is just a way keeping score. Lyric Kinard (41:54.177) It is. Well, and it frees you up so you can do other things. You can hire people to do other things. You can expand. can serve your audience either more deeply or wider. Those are usually the two different ways that businesses can grow is going deeper or wider. Sarah, this has been really interesting and I have enjoyed so much hearing about your journey and hearing about the way that you serve your people. Sarah Hurley (42:32.832) Thank you so much for having me. It's been lovely. Lyric Kinard (42:36.604) It has been. I love to wrap up with a fun question just off the top of your head. What is the last thing you made? And it doesn't have to be something you made with your hands. Sarah Hurley (42:50.304) The last thing I made was chocolate It's always going to be chocolate brownies. I make chocolate brownies all the time. it's chocolate brownies. Lyric Kinard (42:57.106) My mouth immediately salivated. Hmm, hmm, do I have everything I need? It was ginger cookies for me last night. We had a craving, so now we have lots of ginger cookies and delicious, lovely and sweet and chocolate makes the world go round. Sarah, thank you so much. It's been a delight and a pleasure. Sarah Hurley (43:25.782) Thank you so much.