Nicole Stevenson on Building Creative Businesses That Feed Your Soul

Lyric Kinard (00:01.752) Hello. Friends, it is so good to have you back with us. I am here today with Nicole Stevenson from Craftcation, which is this completely amazing event that I cannot wait for you to hear about. But we're going to kind of get into a little bit of the story, the business story, the behind the scenes, which is what we do here, because I love hearing how creative people create businesses that serve other people. That's what we all do here, right? So Nicole, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about why and how you very first got started in this arena. Nicole (00:49.245) Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. My name is Nicole and I produce a conference called Craftcation Conference, which is a conference for creatives every year in Ventura, California in the spring. And then I also produce a makers festival called Patchwork Show that is in California, Northern and Southern, that I've been doing for over 20 years, which I can't believe it's been that long. And then I do... Lyric Kinard (01:14.54) You must have started when you were like 10. You look like you're, there's no way you could have been doing something for 20 years. Nicole (01:17.845) Yeah, no, I am almost 50. So I'm getting very, very close to that age where when I was a kid, they called it over the hill. I remember, you know, the adult parties would have all that over the hill stuff. But anyway. Lyric Kinard (01:37.198) You know, we're just at a peak, you know, isn't that fantastic? Nicole (01:39.145) Yeah, that's right. A peak. I like that. It's a it's getting to the peak. Yeah. So and then I also mentor mentor creatives at Hello Nicole Stevenson. And I have a podcast that's been on hiatus for a little while. And I have a program called camp that helps creatives go after their goals in a mindful way that's kind of really kind of focused on neuro spicy people. Cause I started realizing there were some I'm neuro spicy, which I didn't know until I was actually invited to be on a panel about it. And then I was like, wait a second, I didn't know that. So, and a lot of people in our community are, so it's really about goal getting that matches your brain, your schedule, your terms, like anti hustle, I would say. Lyric Kinard (02:09.634) Yeah. Lyric Kinard (02:25.974) You know how interesting it is that creatives in and of themselves are often all over the place and sometimes less. Sometimes they're really focused, but creative business people across the board, I would say the vast majority of them that I've met, we're all off the charts, ADD. And it's a superpower, it's a good thing. It's why we're able to do this. Nicole (02:52.979) Yeah, I agree. Mine, my NeuroSpiciness is actually OCD, which I did not know was part of that arena. We had a panel at Craftcation and somebody ended up not being able to come and they needed another panelist and somebody was like, well, why don't you go on? have OCD. And I'm like, that's not neurodiverse. And they're like, yes, it is. So I had to do some Googling to find that out, but it made a lot of sense. And I do feel like as much as it's been something difficult throughout my life, it is also a superpower once. you learn to. Yeah, and you get the coping tools that you need therapy props for that. So yeah, I've been doing all this for quite some time. I mean, how did I get started? I feel like I came out of the womb a creative person, and also a business person. I mean, when I was a little kid, I was the one who was like, okay, I'm gonna make this stationery and, you know, try to sell it to the neighbors or you know, I was always that person. Lyric Kinard (03:25.272) channel it. Lyric Kinard (03:50.498) You had that entrepreneurial spirit from the start. Nicole (03:54.449) Yeah, and everybody in my family, almost everybody works for themselves, has their own business. Generally in like blue collar professions, like my mom had a house cleaning business, my dad's a barber, my uncle's a mechanic, you know. But I just grew up around all these people, not necessarily creative entrepreneurs, but people who were self-employed, who, you know, kind of did things on their own terms. So it felt very natural for me to Lyric Kinard (04:00.032) Hmm. Lyric Kinard (04:08.162) Mm-hmm. Nicole (04:22.357) be in that world. Even though it necessarily wasn't my plan when I went to college, I felt like it was my destiny and I couldn't escape it. I tried to fit myself into this other, what do they say, round peg square hole or square hole round peg. Exactly, exactly. I've always been creative, but professionally it... Lyric Kinard (04:30.989) There you go. Lyric Kinard (04:38.473) Mm-hmm. You just jumped out and made your own. Nicole (04:51.629) started when I was living in San Francisco and I was in college, I was studying creative writing and my best friend at the time was a painter and we were waitresses at a bar and grill in the financial district there and after work she'd like, you want to come over and paint? Okay, yeah. So I would just sit there and paint with her and then she had a art show coming up and she was like, What if I gave you like a little space at my art show for your paintings? And I was like, Sure. So I made these 10 paintings and they were just like kind of very me mixed media, like whatever. And they all sold at the show and I was like, I'm hooked now. And I was frustrated with, you know, I was in graduate school for creative writing and I was frustrated with like the only opportunity that was really presented to me was either keeping a waitress and write and submit your stories and hope that you make it or go into teaching. And I had been teaching I was a I was teaching undergrad creative writing classes and I just I had people in my you know people in my college classes who are much older than me who had lived all this life who had you know kids and this and all traveling and everything and I was like how can I teach these people about writing about their life when I'm this like little baby person you know so I felt like I needed just it wasn't fitting at the time so Anyway, this friend and I decided to move from San Francisco to LA and to try to make a living as artists. moved into, her sister was living there in Hollywood and we moved into her sister's like little tiny dining room that didn't have a door. And there was no bed in there. There was like a bean bag in the floor. And the two of us share this like little 10 by 10 doorless room. And then we would go to Venice beach to the boardwalk and take the blanket off our beanbag bed and set it up on the sidewalk with our art and try to sell our art to the tourists who were there. And from there, I just kind of, I think I started realizing that I wasn't really as interested in fine art as I was in functional art and as in like actually making a living off of this and like making it accessible for people. So I started doing more functional. Lyric Kinard (07:09.997) Mm-hmm. Nicole (07:17.614) art and like easily buyable art so like really affordable and then I started doing my paintings on little canvases and then taking you know old jeans from the thrift store and patch working together and making a purse and then sewing my canvas on the front of it with my painting so then I was making purses and then that kind of expanded and eventually I started a clothing line and had rep selling my stuff all over the country and was doing trade shows and was in, you know, hundreds of stores and it was awesome and great for a while until it wasn't. And it's really, it's really hard. Yeah, I mean, I had to put out five new lines a year. Like, and every line had to have, I mean, it would have like 30 pieces. So was like the second you finished a line, Lyric Kinard (07:54.665) not very scalable. I mean it's amazing, but one person doing all of that work? Lyric Kinard (08:05.005) Ugh. Nicole (08:11.186) you were starting a new one and they were taking it all to the trade show. So there was just, it was extremely, extremely stressful and not sustainable for me. And it was like the more stores I got into and the more money I made, the more stressed I was, you know, and it just kind of took its toll. eventually I stopped doing that and opened up a craft workshop studio in Orange County, which was the first, I mean, this was over 20 years ago, so it was the first craft workshop studio in the area. People hardly knew what Etsy was at that time. It was really hard. I feel like on one way it can sound like I'm like, I was the first, but really what I'm trying to say is that it wasn't there yet, so people didn't get it yet. So was really difficult to explain to people. Lyric Kinard (08:48.557) Right? Nicole (09:04.146) this whole idea of DIY and craft workshop and doing this for your kid's birthday party or something, they just kind of weren't ready for it yet. it was tricky to find my people. And then through there, my aunt and I, we had shops next door to each other and we put on our first patchwork show, craft festival. that was just Orange County, I grew up there and I... Lyric Kinard (09:09.473) Hmm. Nicole (09:33.21) hated it. so being back living there after living in Hollywood and San Francisco and Echo Park was kind of like, but I had some stuff in my life breakups and you know, ended up back there. And I was always going to LA and San Francisco to do stuff. And my aunt and I were talking, we're like, why don't we do something here? There's nothing here. It's like crappy Orange County. And now there's a ton in Orange County. But at that time, there wasn't. So we put on the first patchwork show. not knowing it was going to ever happen again and it went really well and so that that happened. Lyric Kinard (10:10.253) When you pivoted to a different thing, how did you end the doing all the product lines? We don't often think about how one business ends and another one starts. Nicole (10:20.348) I didn't end it, yeah. Nicole (10:28.796) Yeah, it took a while for it to end. So I was doing them at the same time for a very long time. But I just, yeah. But I changed the way that I was doing that. My, my clothing line was called random Nicole. So I changed the way I was doing random Nicole. stopped doing wholesale and I kind of went back to how I started. So I was, you know, doing craft fairs. I was doing farmers markets. I was doing my online, you my online shop and I was Lyric Kinard (10:34.157) I'm more stress on top of it. Nicole (10:56.766) producing almost everything myself. So basically got rid of all my employees, stopped having my reps and just went super simple, cut back on all my expenses. And yeah, so that was how I did it. And then I did it for many years because we didn't make any money doing Patchwork Show for a very long time. So I did that and I did Random Nicole, Juggle, Juggle, Juggle, started Craftcation. So it was all three of them. And then eventually I saw a business coach, woman named Tiffany Hahn, and she asked me some, I only had one session with her and I guess that was all I needed because she would deliver to what I needed immediately. But she... was talking, she asked me, what do you need to let go of? And it was that identity that I was random Nicole. I mean, that was what people called me. And like, was really, and I, it was time for me to let go of that, business basically. And she said, how about you just put your Etsy shop on vacation? And I did. And that was it. And that was when I really just like started transitioning out, you know, went to my aunt who was my partner at the time and said like, listen, I'm going to go all in on this. I know you have your other business and you don't have to. but I'm going to. And then we split and she moved on to something in the food industry in 2018. So it's been a while that we've been apart and that I've been the sole owner of Craftcation and Patchwork Show. Lyric Kinard (12:36.277) It's really interesting to hear this broad overview of the journey of how you try this and you try this and you try this and some are wildly successful, but they don't feed your soul and they suck you dry and then you try other things. And it's a messy process. think sometimes people see a finished product and think, that's amazing. What an amazing idea they had. And we don't realize the struggle before and the growth and the failures. Well, they're not even failures, just the things that I find this lovely and wonderful that you had so much success with Random Nicole. But then you realized it wasn't what you needed and what was aligned with the core of where you wanted to go for it. It's so important for us as creative business people, because it's that creativity that fills our souls, To be in the part of our business and in alignment with what keeps feeding our soul instead of what... what drains us, what just exhausts us, what pulls that creativity away. Nicole (13:59.988) I completely agree with you. And I think the tricky part is realizing that the thing that may be filling your soul at one point, a couple years later may not fill your soul anymore. And that was what happened to exactly and that was what happened to me. It was like, it's kind of Lyric Kinard (14:12.429) Because we grow. Nicole (14:18.79) It's kind of like a marriage. mean, you are married to your business. It is an active relationship and your creativity. And it's like, are you going to grow together? Are you going to grow apart? Are you going go your separate way? You know, what are you going to do here? And it just as hard as getting a divorce or having a breakup is changing that route for your business and letting go. I mean, it took me years to let go of random Nicole and, but. Lyric Kinard (14:29.751) Mm-hmm. Nicole (14:46.802) When, when I look back on the path, I can see that it's all grist for the mill. You know, everything led to the next thing, even if that thing didn't seem important or successful or whatever it was at the time. mean, I think back onto those days I was sitting on the Venice beach boardwalk and I had no idea what I was doing or where I was, where I was going to go. But in that one summer that I sat there, it. I learned so much about life and business and people that I don't think I've ever learned so much in such a short period of time in my life. And I'm emotional right now because I'm thinking back on the people that I was sitting there with and these were people who were unhoused people. know, like my friend and I were the only people on that boardwalk who had a house to go home to. And even though we were living... in that tiny little doorless dining room and sharing it, we had a place to go. Even though we didn't have a bed, we had a roof over our heads and these people did not. And they gave so much to us, you know, because they were sleeping on the streets near there, they would go and save us a spot when they saved their spot in the morning, because we had to drive in. I mean, there were times when we didn't have any money. We had no food at home, no money, you know, for... lunch and it's like somebody would sell a painting and they'd be like, hey, I'm going to get us a big burrito and we'd all share that burrito. And it was just like, you know, I spent my life, think definitely feeling for other people and, and caring for them, but never really having to be in a position like that where I was like, this person, you know, maybe hasn't showered for a long time. This person has nothing. This person's teeth are rotted out and this is a person who like I am hugging so tight right now and I would do anything for. It just changes everything. Lyric Kinard (16:57.375) It does. When we put ourselves outside of our own experience and are open to what's out there, that I think the empathy that is created, the connection that is created helps us to better serve going forward. I think creative businesses that are successful both for the people, the audience, the students, and for the business owner are ones where you create that connection. being able to understand experiences outside of your own is, I think, required element because we can, you can limit yourself and only serve people that are exactly like you, right? But where's the growth and where's the goodness and where's the beautiful bigness of beauty and love and compassion and service that we as creative business people can offer because that's really what we do, isn't it? We are serving the people that are our customers. They're not as much customers or they're just over and over. Yeah, our community, the people we serve when we come to it from a place of service and that's built through the kind of experiences that you had at that time. Nicole (18:21.832) Community, it's like, yeah. Nicole (18:32.722) Yeah, it's interesting that you said that about service because I, one of the things that in my mentorship stuff that people come to me that they struggle with is marketing. and marketing themselves. And they're like, how do you do it? Like, how do you, you know, show up on social media? Like, how do you show up and talk on Instagram? And I'm like, oh my gosh, if you could see my phone of all the trials of, oh, gotta start over, gotta start over to get to one 10 second video where I'm like, hey, don't forget to apply for a patchwork show. You would not be saying that right now. But the one thing that switched in my brain that helped me was, coming from a place of service. Like I am, I'm not, I am just a conduit. I'm just the vehicle this message is coming out of. It's not about me, it's about my message. And if this can help one person, then I'm gonna do it. I mean, was in a, was it a workshop? Yeah, in a workshop the other day and I was talking about Instagram and I was saying examples of something. And I was like, for example, you could, if you were, if you were affiliating for products, you could curate them into a group. it's summer right now, at this time we're recording and it's very hot. And I was like, you know, like for me, I have like a neck fan and I have these like portable ice packs. So I could do like a curation of Fat Girl Summer. And somebody in the group was like, that's a great idea. Can you do that? And so I did, I put together an Instagram reel called, you know, Fat Girl Summer. These are my favorite things for summer. And... you know, one of my favorite things is this wireless bra and I was like, just show them the wireless bra. It's not revealing at all, you know, but it was just like, it's not about me. If one person can find this, can find this thing that's going to make them more comfortable, then it's worth it. I'm here to be of service. Lyric Kinard (20:18.093) You Lyric Kinard (20:30.285) Like ding ding ding ding ding ding winter. This is exactly the sermon I preach all the time and that so many of our colleagues truly understand is that it's not about us and that we're not pushing this thing that we're selling on other people. We are offering a gift. We're sharing something that has made our lives better, more creative, more joyful. And your life can be better too. the marketing isn't sales, it's connecting and helping and loving and serving the people that we're speaking to. Nicole (21:15.016) And people can sense that. Lyric Kinard (21:17.301) Absolutely, they absolutely can. Where your business is now? I want to hear about craftication. Tell us what this is, because it's a little, I've never been, I've heard from here and from there, these, they're always starry eyed. They're always, it's not just this thing, it's an experience. And it's. Nicole (21:26.258) Yeah Nicole (21:38.811) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (21:46.209) What comes across is how they feel about it, which feels different than a lot of other conferences and trade shows and exhibition kind of shows that I've seen. So I wanna hear, describe what it is, and then let's kind of go back into how it was built into what it is now. Nicole (22:08.724) Yeah, absolutely. So, craftcation now is a week in the spring in Ventura, California. We usually have around 500 people there. And we have over 200 different workshops and activities with about 15 plus happening simultaneously for people to choose from. So that the workshops are small. You're not gonna be in a room with 200 people listening to someone lecture. You're gonna be in a room with 20 other people doing. you know, small group thing where you can actually get your question answered by the person. So it started out small and we try to keep that intimacy there by having more workshops with smaller capacities in them. We have craft workshops, everything from sewing. We have three sewing rooms that are filled with sewing machines that are buzzing all day every day. We have a dyeing work. dyeing classroom in the parking lot where people do indigo and ice dye and all kinds of things. have jewelry, screen printing, printmaking, resin. We've had perfume making before. We've had stained glass before. I mean, it just any possible type of craft, crochet, knitting, know, anything you could imagine, we've probably had it before or are about to have it. And then we have business workshops too. So we have Again, it runs a gambit. have. Nicole (23:36.99) branding, how to do product photography, we'll have accounting, we'll have panels on trying to run a creative business as a neurodivergent person or as a parent or as a caregiver. Everything that a creative person, whether you're making a living out of your creativity or you're leading just or want to lead a creative intentional life, it's everything. we also have wellness. So we have yoga and meditation on the beach. We have, you know, sessions about manifesting. Last year we had creative writing courses. I mean it just everything and then we have fun stuff there too. So we have trivia, we have a costume dance party, we have a board game thing, we have a meetup for introverts and first-timers. We have everything and it's at the beach. It's a block from the beach in Ventura, which is such a cool beach town. It's a very down to earth California beach town with a real appreciation for the arts. And last year we partnered with some small businesses in the downtown and had workshops in their studios, which was really great to. Yeah, we partnered with other women owned small businesses and that was really cool. Lyric Kinard (24:47.415) That's a win for everybody. Nicole (24:55.3) So yeah, that's what craftcation is now. And how it started was, I mean, I guess I can go back and say, I mean, that's what it is in the description, but that's not the feeling of it. The feeling of it is like walking into a family reunion with family you haven't met yet. You know, it's just this. Yeah, yes. Not like the family you wish you didn't have. Lyric Kinard (25:17.313) who you love and you like and you miss. Nicole (25:25.106) It's the attendee demographic really varies. mean, you'll be in a workshop with, you know, a queer woman with a mohawk who's sitting next to, you know, an old grandma from the Midwest, and they probably voted differently, but they're sitting next to each other making a craft and finding a common ground. So there's a lot of magic there in the connections of the people. And I feel like anybody who comes there that doesn't want to make genuine connections with people and isn't ready to accept people as they are, first of all, they probably wouldn't, they probably wouldn't register in the first place. if they did, they're not, they're probably not going to come back. It's, you know, it's very down to earth. You're hanging out with the presenters. There's not really a division between presenters and attendees where it's like, I can't go up to this person. It's like, yeah, you're sitting next to them in another workshop, you know, knitting a scarf or something. So there's that whole part of it. There's a real magic to it that I don't feel very many other places. and it... Lyric Kinard (26:36.781) beautiful. And it comes across, as I said, when people tell me about your conference, it's not, they don't tell about it the same way they talk about other conferences. So it's lovely to see the successful connection and community you've built there. Nicole (26:56.22) It is about that community. it's, we're only as good as our people who come, you know, they're the ones who welcome new people who make it feel like a good experience. Lyric Kinard (27:03.789) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (27:08.173) So how did you start, how did you build that? I would say make that happen, but it's a timely, intensive, struggling kind of process. But that's what teachers and creative businesses want to do, is we want to build that feeling of connection. So. Nicole (27:20.222) You Lyric Kinard (27:31.883) Tell us kind of how it started. Did you have this feeling that you wanted to build that from the beginning? How did it evolve? Nicole (27:40.92) No, I had no idea what I was doing. yeah, my then business partner at the time and I were invited to Ventura by someone who worked at the city there who wanted us to bring Patchwork Show there. And we were in the car driving there and there was a lot of traffic and we just started talking about Lyric Kinard (27:45.165) as we often don't. Nicole (28:04.008) Like, wouldn't it be cool if we could have like a retreat for people like us and they could take business classes and craft classes. And then by the time we got to this meeting, we were like, Hey, Eric, we know you want us to bring patchwork show here, but we actually have this other thing. It's a conference we produce. Like we just talked about it. Like it already existed. It's called craftcation. It's this, it's that, it's the other. And that was really how it was born. I had never been to a conference before or anything like that. So I did not know what it was supposed to be. Lyric Kinard (28:30.869) in the deep end. Nicole (28:32.678) Yeah, I had zero idea. And we found, he helped us find a hotel that would host us. Cause when we tried to, we did a meeting on our own and the hotel didn't take us seriously. So he called the hotel and was like, these girls are serious. I sent them in. And when we went back, they had like a cracker and cheese spread set up and everything because yeah, yeah, exactly. Cause we were too, you know, Lyric Kinard (28:55.178) and the media kit and the... Nicole (29:03.412) was I at that time? don't know, 30s, you know, girls, think I had blue hair at the time. And it was like, the hotel was like, what are you know, wasn't Lyric Kinard (29:12.173) You weren't wearing a suit and a tie with a business haircut and a different gender. Let's put it that way. So it was hard to be taken seriously. Nicole (29:14.906) No, no. Yeah. Exactly. yeah, luckily this person from the city really believed in us and helped us make that happen. And then we just really created something that we wanted to go to, which was great in a way, but kind of a bummer because we couldn't go to it. We were running around, you know, had no idea about the only thing we really knew about event production was what we learned from doing Patchwork Show, Makers Festival, that was like six hours on one day. And this was like days long with hundreds of people. You know, we had our whole family there helping out and I don't know, was just from the get-go, it was a really magical experience. I mean, there were a lot of problems, a lot of big mistakes that we made. Over the years, things have gotten refined and I feel like every year things are a little more streamlined. Lyric Kinard (29:54.039) Mm-hmm. Nicole (30:19.858) the difficulty with producing something on this scale is that we're only doing it once a year. So when we learn something, we have to wait a whole nother year to try that out. It's not like with, if you're doing a monthly maker's market, it's like, next month we're gonna do this, next month we're gonna do this, next month we're gonna do this. It's like, you have to really analyze what's working and what isn't because you only have that chance once a year to improve. Lyric Kinard (30:50.753) What are some of, are you willing to share with us some of the things that did not work and what you learned from them? Nicole (30:58.674) Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Things that didn't work were in the beginning, we tried to have food too, but the hotel food was too expensive and we were trying to keep the conference affordable. So we had my husband who was a chef cook and they're in like a not industrial kitchen. Like we rented. Like we used the kitchen at City Hall that they let us use. We rented the kitchen at the Italian American Center and it was just extremely stressful. And we ended up finding that while some of the original attendees miss it, overall it hasn't, for the amount of difficulty, it didn't really change their overall experience. I think too, like refining the schedule. One of the problems was that I tend to want to over deliver. And so it was like, okay, we're going to serve breakfast and we're going to serve lunch. We're going to, you know, have four different workshops. We're going to have like 10 things happening at night. We're going to do, you know, all of this stuff. And over the years, was like pulling back and offering less, but making what we did offer really strong. You know, and realizing like people don't want to rush around. And I think in the beginning we had like 10 minutes between classes because we were trying to pack in so many classes and it's like, you know, list reading, we send out a survey every year and read that feedback. And that has been extremely helpful in shaping what it's become now. Lyric Kinard (32:29.814) Yeah Lyric Kinard (32:44.621) When you actually talk to your people, is no matter what you do, when you are in a service-based industry, which is what we as teachers and shops and conference organizers are doing, we are serving people and we think we know what's going on, but until you talk to them, there's often so many things that you don't realize are needed, that are a gap that you're not filling until... I mean teachers can do this at the end of every class. talking to your people is hugely important. Nicole (33:18.75) Yep. Nicole (33:22.354) Yeah, taught, like, well, I had my craft workshop studio, was called the Craft Kitchen, and then I also taught workshops at a lot of different places. And that was something that took me a while to learn, is that at the end of my workshop, I had a little piece of paper. I mean, now I probably have a QR code, you know, where they could go and do it, but I just had a little piece of paper with, I think, four or five simple questions, and then space for them to, like, write something, write something in. And that was super helpful. I wish I would have thought of that sooner. But again, at the time when I was doing all this stuff in my business, we just didn't have the resources we have now. know, like I started my business and I had like one of those Mac, you know, blueberry computers, you know, I was still on dial up internet. So I think I'm happy that people have all of these resources now. Lyric Kinard (34:08.461) I'm Lyric Kinard (34:18.701) It is much easier and I love getting feedback from students. And if you're afraid of what they might say, don't be. And you can word questions such as, what value did you gain from the class? What is missing? What? expectations did you have that were or were not met? And then my favorite question is always, what can I do to improve this class for future students or future attendees? It's like people love to be an expert, right? So they love to give you ideas for ways that you can help the future. It's not like it's not about you again. It always comes back to that. It's never about us. as the business owner, as the teacher, as the presenter. It's about how can we better serve. So if our current students are serving future students, they love that. Nicole (35:22.055) Agree. Lyric Kinard (35:24.021) And even if you have a really small list, if you have a really small audience, doing this kind of research, like if you have 20 people on an email list and you're at the very beginning of your business, that's a huge, lovely resource because you can send a private email to everyone and say, get on Zoom with me for half an hour and let me ask you questions. What are your issues? What are your problems? What are you struggling with? Nicole (35:35.796) you Lyric Kinard (35:53.985) can how do you think I can best help you? And that can give you gold, gold, gold for things that you produce. Nicole (36:04.36) I mean, that kind of input, that's stuff that big corporations pay tens of thousands of dollars for. They hire companies to find these people and set this up. And we have it at our fingertips already here. And I want to go back to what you said about being scared to get feedback. And yes, getting feedback is scary, but we're never going to improve unless we get it. Lyric Kinard (36:19.991) We do. Nicole (36:34.43) There's a writer, she wrote this book called Playing Big, her name is Tara Moore, and she helped me reframe feedback. And it's not a judgment on me or my art or my service, it's a judgment on how what I'm making, what I'm presenting is fitting into what that person needs at that particular moment. And it may show you that you need to change your service or product, but it also may show you that the people you're reaching aren't the people who need this thing that you've made. So no matter what it's gonna help you, of course there are those people who are the outliers who just wanna make everybody miserable. So you have to kind of think about that too. But for the most part, I try to look for patterns and feedback, you know, from multiple people so I can see, okay, is this just one cranky person or is this something that needs to be addressed? Lyric Kinard (37:31.533) Absolutely. And you know those outliers and those cranky people, I do this thing in my head where I make up the worst story on the planet about how their day is going. you know, just, my gosh, you know, her dog died and she got in a traffic accident on the way here. just, I make up a sob story and it takes all of the pressure off of it being any reflection on us. that they're experiencing before they even come to us if there's an outlier. Now if there's repeated criticisms that are a problem, that's such, like you said, such valuable information. It's like this is a hole or a gap that I was blind to and my people are suffering because it's not being filled. And now I know and now I can fill it and it makes it so much better. Nicole (38:28.564) Exactly. Lyric Kinard (38:32.045) Tell us, Craftcation is open to teacher applications. what are you looking for when you're looking for bringing in people to collaborate with you on this experience that you create for your attendees? Nicole (38:53.012) It's interesting you asked me that because I just made a reel last night for Instagram that's, you know, here's what we're looking for, basically. So yeah, so I look for practicality, like can the workshop be done in the space that we have with the resources that we have? I look at supplies. So are these supplies reasonable? Are they safe? Are we gonna be able to use them in a hotel? Lyric Kinard (39:02.824) in your mind. Nicole (39:22.612) I also look at the teacher and their experience, not necessarily in like how many workshops have they taught, but more in does the experience that they have and their presence seem like it's gonna come together to make a workshop that where attendees are not only learning something, but where they're also enjoying themselves. I think that's really important too. We've definitely, yeah. Lyric Kinard (39:49.351) Okay, so let's stop there for just one second because you're not going to be able to be in the room with all the teachers. So how does, I'm leading you on to something that's my thing, right? How does a person express or put their presence out there? How can you find out what that presence is like? Nicole (39:59.294) Correct. Nicole (40:03.988) Yeah. Nicole (40:15.7) Survey. So we survey people. We have a QR code that's in every classroom where people can scan it, go to a thing, pick the workshop they were in and submit feedback right then. And then we also send a survey out at the end of the conference. So we have two ways. Lyric Kinard (40:18.029) surface. Lyric Kinard (40:39.797) So these are surveys to go to people who have been in classrooms for who you will bring back. What about new people? Nicole (40:46.076) Yes. New people who we've never had before? Well, I... It's part instinct and part research. So I'll look at their social media and their website. I will try to find a video of them talking, whether they're teaching or just talking and kind of see what their presence is like. If they... Lyric Kinard (40:49.865) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (40:55.095) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (41:11.453) This is exactly where I was going because... right? Nicole (41:13.076) If they feel like they're going to be welcoming or if they seem, you know, like tense and stressed out. don't, students could already feel tense and stressed out in a craft workshop or a business workshop. And I want somebody who's going to be a grounding, helpful, welcoming presence there. Lyric Kinard (41:33.975) Right, so teachers. People can't tell from reading your resume or your application who you are. They can see what you've done and what you've accomplished. But if you're on video somewhere, social media, introductory videos on your website, and if you're just yourself, You know, if you come from this, it's not about me, this is the gift I have to offer and how I can help other people. Your personality and your giving spirit will come through, right? And also teachers do your own surveys, right? Because you have done surveys of the students that were there, but maybe call back a student or two and have a quick interview with them about... How are things now for you compared to what they were? for testimonials, which are gold for a teacher or for any business person, right? When somebody sends something to you, that is wonderful. And I always write right back and say, it would be a huge gift to me if I could use these kind words to let other people into my world, right? But if you can also direct those things into talking about... Lyric Kinard (43:00.929) the benefit, not just, Nicole's an amazing person, right? That doesn't really bring the new person in. If they can say, I was at Craftication and... my soul was filled and I met people who felt like family even though I'd never met them and the environment there was so happy and joyful and accepting. You know, it's about how they feel because of the experience. That's what's going to help you get across who you are and the kind of thing that you're looking for, Nicole (43:41.915) Absolutely, absolutely. Lyric Kinard (43:47.721) Nicole this has been so Wonderful, I have loved hearing part of the journey. I know there's so much more in there. If we had five hours, it wouldn't be enough to cover all the ups and downs and all the making of behind the process in your business and your businesses. But we see who you are and what you've built and how you serve. And it's a beautiful thing. And I'm so grateful that you took time to talk with us. Nicole (43:59.124) You Nicole (44:18.27) Thank you so much for having me. It's been a joy getting to know you better and I mean, talking about creativity, creative business, teaching, sharing, being of service, community. Thank you so much. Lyric Kinard (44:31.285) It is a good thing. And before we go, our last fun question that we always ask is, what's the last thing you made? Nicole (44:35.72) Mm-hmm. Nicole (44:40.616) this dress I'm wearing right now. Lyric Kinard (44:42.887) look at that! People that are listening, it's a beautiful sundress with patterns on both sides with, I love how you've switched the, I'm calling it binding because I'm a quilter and there's a different word. The binding on the, that's it, the facing on the neckline. One pattern is on the other side. It's very creative and summery and beautiful. It always feels so good to wear something that you made. Nicole (44:55.708) Yeah, I would call it bias tape. Nicole (45:05.918) Thank you. Nicole (45:10.984) Yeah, I'm enjoying, I just started, I think just a few weeks ago, I sewed my first dress and I'm obsessed. So yeah. Yeah, I'm obsessed. Thank you. Thank you. Lyric Kinard (45:16.973) What? That new and you made that? I'm impressed. It's so much your hook now. You're in trouble. You're in big trouble. All right, Nicole. Thank you so much. And my friends keep serving, keep creating beautiful things, keep bringing joy and beauty into the world because the world needs it right now. And what you do is important. All right. Take care, friends.