Money Is an Amplifier: Taxes & Mindset for Creatives with Hannah Cole

Lyric Kinard (00:01.102) Hello friends, we are so excited to have you with us today, especially because we have something a little different, but kind of really vital to every one of your businesses. We have with us today, Hannah Cole from Sunlight Tax. She runs a money bootcamp that I took a few years ago that was phenomenal. So I'm so grateful she was able to come here. and we're gonna talk a little bit about money for businesses specifically for creative businesses like ours. Hannah, say hi and tell us a little bit about your background. Who are you? Why did you end up where you are now? Hannah Cole (00:47.645) Sure. First, thank you so much, Lyric, for having me. And hi, everybody. I'm an artist. I've been an artist for 20 years. And I always wanted to be an artist when I grew up. So this is the primary part of me. But later in life, 10 years into my art career, I finally got so mad and frustrated at the sort of like interaction with taxes. From being treated, you know, my I went when I went to my dad's accountant, he was like, when are you going to get a real job? And like, stuff like that happening to me. And, you know, as you know, as a creative person, like, you are running a business, but it you know, money and taxes are not exactly what you like, want to do with every minute of your day, you'd rather do the creative work or build your audience. And so I just felt like this is a thing that people like me need. I'm just going to go back to school. I'm going to start this business like I had a real vision. Lyric Kinard (01:21.995) Hmm. Ouch. Hannah Cole (01:46.645) for starting my business, Sunlight Tax, because I was like, the creative community is why I'm here. These are my people, this is my community. We need this, and it doesn't exist, and I'm just gonna go do the thing and make sure that creative people have this information about just how to handle your taxes, right? Because it doesn't need to be as hard or as insulting as it had been for me. Lyric Kinard (01:49.55) Mmm. Lyric Kinard (02:15.372) Right? And I get that we're like visionary twins, you know, have this idea and a goal and you see a need that is desperate, nobody's filling that hole. And so you, you set out before you started learning how to do the thing. You knew you wanted to do the thing. Hannah Cole (02:16.329) Yeah. Hannah Cole (02:27.507) Yeah! Hannah Cole (02:36.052) Totally. And isn't that the magic? mean, like, just for the why driving all of us, like me with Sunlight Tax, you with your teaching academy, like, isn't that what we do that's magic about us is like, we have that vision, we see the thing, and we're like, I know the road there might be rocky, but I'm going to figure it out. And I'm going to make it happen. Like, that to me is the magic of being a creative person. Yeah. Lyric Kinard (03:01.228) Absolutely. So how did that go? You're a fine artist, you're a painter, and you had this vision, you had that, mean, learning accounting, learning taxes is not a light subject, and it's not a just, hey, let's go to a couple weekend classes, things. What is the journey you took to where you are today? Hannah Cole (03:26.221) no. Hannah Cole (03:30.315) Sure. Well, it went really all the way back to school. I enrolled at Brooklyn College. I was living in New York at the time. And yeah, so just started the training from ground zero. And I think what I like about that is just like I actually really experienced needing to do my taxes. from the position of knowing nothing about it and being really confused and not being able to find the information. So I think where that served me well is that or helps me serve others is that like, I know what's confusing. I know why it feels so horrible. And like, I'm really trying to solve for that. Lyric Kinard (04:12.046) Yeah, you've walked the walk. Understanding the problem that you are solving for your people that you serve is kind of core to everything we do. Hannah Cole (04:14.292) for sure. Hannah Cole (04:22.033) Absolutely. I actually, it's a lot of like building the business, Sunlight Tax has taught me so much about running my business as an artist. So I have a million lessons in that. And yes, understanding your audience and the need that you're serving. I think sometimes we get a little disconnected from that as creative people, but that is equally important if not primary. So yeah. Lyric Kinard (04:47.49) Yeah, right. And it's interesting that you learn this lesson for one part of your life for your business, and you work at it, and you get better at it. And even though you have all these interests and ideas for other things you really want to be doing too, as well, in addition to, you learn it for that one part. And it applies and helps you build and succeed at the other parts of your life and your businesses. Hannah Cole (05:12.456) Yeah, absolutely. That is that is the thing. Lyric Kinard (05:16.084) Let's talk just a little bit. You do a lot about Money Mindset as well as very, very, very practical information for artists, mostly in the United States, but a lot of the information is just general, good information, accounting practices, and I love your savings and Money Mindset kind of things. Hannah Cole (05:29.226) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (05:44.149) If you are talking to an artist who has always just been like you were, I don't know what to do with this. I don't know how to manage my taxes or just in general, my money. Where do you start with them? What do you see as their biggest problem that they need to fix or the mindset that they need to work through and change? Hannah Cole (06:12.188) Yeah, I think a really one of the mindset things that can be so deep you don't even realize it's there is having a negative attitude about money at all. Like just identifying if that is true, because I think a lot of us it is kind of true and you can there may be little indicators in language that you use if you use the word sell out or eat, say eat the rich or you know. It, the phrases like that kind of reveal like, the rich are over there. I'm not part of that. I don't want to be a part of that because there's something negative there. Or. Lyric Kinard (06:51.788) And especially for creatives, it kind of feels like as soon as you tie money into it, you're that word selling out, right? That you're becoming commercial instead of authentic. Hannah Cole (07:03.86) For sure. And I think the good news is these things can be teased apart. don't like, sure, there are a lot of jerks who are rich, like that's true. But there's jerks who are poor too. Like it's not the richness that makes them want to jerk. They just have a bigger amplifier. And I think the important part to tease out there is money is an amplifier. So. That really is true. So if you are a wonderful person serving people in a beautiful way with an authentic voice, money can help you do more of that, reach more people, do a higher quality of work, have a higher quality of focus, attention, and care. And these are wonderful things, and money amplifies that. So I think what's important here is just what is it you're trying to amplify? Do you want to amplify what you have? There is there can be and especially with people who are you know socialized female although of course this can apply to any gender. You know we do get some meta messages about staying small so sometimes there is a fear of amplifying there is a fear of kind of like stepping out on a larger stage so. Lyric Kinard (08:15.567) Who am I to think I'm good enough to do this big thing? Yeah. How do you dig into that and what do you, like, do you overcome that kind of idea? Hannah Cole (08:18.215) totally. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Hannah Cole (08:32.111) Yeah, I mean, it's a big project, but I do. Lyric Kinard (08:36.427) Of course, there's a whole course on it. Tell me the whole course in 30 seconds or less. Hannah Cole (08:43.056) Yeah, but I do think at the core of it is, what is your vision? What is that vision that you have for the thing you want to do in the world, whether it's the people you serve, the way you want to serve, the objects or the teaching you want to serve with, the connections you want to build. If those are the important things to you, think about what amplifying that could look like, could feel like. That's the place I think. to lean in because money is a tool to make that go better, stronger, smoother, be able to hire out the parts you don't like or do more of the parts you do like. yeah. Lyric Kinard (09:21.111) right? Right, or even do more good in the world, right? You have, I love the idea of it being an amplifier in if we are coming from a place of service and that's what most teachers are doing, right? Most of us have worked hard to develop something that will make other people's lives Hannah Cole (09:26.525) Absolutely. Hannah Cole (09:34.474) Mm-hmm. yeah. Lyric Kinard (09:42.18) better and easier and happier, joyful, more creative, right? As teachers were bringing that creativity into their lives. And, you know, we can do it better and more and expand our reach. You know, and also, you know, if you're the kind of person who puts your resources into your community, imagine how much more you could do with the amplifier of a decent income, right? Hannah Cole (09:46.036) for sure. Hannah Cole (09:49.866) Mm-hmm. Hannah Cole (10:11.229) Absolutely, absolutely. also, and just to to tag and one more thing, I think we tend to when we have a really negative money mindset and sort of see money as over there and evil and wrong, we we tend to be really busy, like underpaid and overworked. And I also want to just point out that money can equal rest. Lyric Kinard (10:36.559) You know, and it's so true, you mentioned that if you and your business are profitable enough, you can have other people do the things that suck your soul out of your heart, right? You can take off those times. can have, as a teacher, you can have more time to actually make the things that you want to make, right? Hannah Cole (10:52.647) Absolutely. Hannah Cole (11:01.811) Yes, and it comes and it can become once you there's some mindset challenges in those things. You're hiring your first contractor, hiring your first employee like these these things can have their own little, you know, new level new devil. But I think when you my gosh, I just totally lost my train of thought. Lyric Kinard (11:14.991) Yep. Lyric Kinard (11:25.197) when we're expanding and growing our business with more income. Hannah Cole (11:31.717) yeah, it can really increase the quality of your work. Just to use myself as an example, before we got on camera here, we were talking about hiring out parts of the podcasting process. I think most people who listen to your podcast or watch the videos are here for your brilliance lyric and your personality and your unique perspective. Lyric Kinard (11:48.248) Right, right. Hannah Cole (11:59.945) That's kind of like the golden egg that you want to care for. And who's holding the nest around it? That can shift a little bit, right? So does somebody edit the sound quality? That doesn't have to be you. That is outsourceable. And the more somebody is doing that work, the more you can be putting your personality and your love and your unique perspective into your shows or your teaching. Lyric Kinard (12:24.117) Right. And now this, is not easy and carefree to get to this point as well. There is risk involved in taking some of the income you're bringing in to send it out for other people, but it allows you to pour more time into the things that only you can do, right? Hannah Cole (12:35.071) Yes. Hannah Cole (12:46.1) very much. Lyric Kinard (12:46.959) At the same time, there are phases of building a business, right? There's the time when you've got your systems working, you've perhaps got other people taking some of the load off. It's never super easy all the time. But before that, while you're building, for instance, when you are first learning how to do your filming or learning taxes and accounting, Hannah Cole (12:53.118) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (13:16.203) and then the time where you're building and trying to reach your audience, know, building the, well, building the course in between of that, and then getting out to people. That building phase is a boatload of work and it can be exhausting and you have to keep, it's the thing where overnight success takes about 20 years, right? Hannah Cole (13:25.78) Mm-hmm. Hannah Cole (13:32.777) yeah. Hannah Cole (13:42.567) yeah. Lyric Kinard (13:43.439) You have to, you have to, how, tell us about that middle part of your process of actually, instead of telling us what's in your business, tell us how you manage building your actual business. Hannah Cole (13:57.58) Sure. Well, if we're talking about me specifically, actually, I'll tell you one of the things that when I was first getting serious about building it, but wasn't that far down the path yet, one of the things that I kind of messed up or would coach myself around now is that I would try to take in a lot of podcasts and read books and watch courses and things on how to build my business well and authentically from people whose perspective I felt was ethical and authentic and the way that I wanted to do my business. I made the mistake of not understanding the length of the timeline. I thought it all had to happen now. I mean, good news, bad news, it's not going to. Lyric Kinard (14:32.514) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (14:50.384) Yep, it doesn't all happen now. It's definitely a long haul. Hannah Cole (14:59.307) It sure is, but also I feel it's really worth it. Doing those hard things are really worthwhile because I remember I hired a business coach. I think I'm her longest standing client at this point. I've been with her for, I think, like eight years because I had this moment. I was not making very much money at the moment that I hired her, and it felt very risky and very scary. But I remember just doing enough self work to realize that I do better fulfilling promises for other people than to myself. yeah, and I'm not alone. I'm sure people listening were like, yeah, I know that one. And I realized if I have a coach, Lyric Kinard (15:30.032) Bye. Lyric Kinard (15:42.544) It's good to know. Hannah Cole (15:54.676) and I can make the things I need to do for my business. If I can turn them into homework for her, I will do them. But if it's just for me, nobody knows and it can fall away. And I was finding that I wasn't holding myself accountable quite as well as I needed to. And I realized that that coach could kind of both cheerlead and drill sergeant me. It turned out to be very worth it because that is exactly what it was. It was like I would get homework every week. And ironically, that homework was for my own self. I'm the one who benefited. But I was like, I've always been a good student and good at getting an A. And I was like, OK, I'm going to get an A. And it was awesome because like finally I was doing it for me. So yeah. Lyric Kinard (16:35.728) Hahaha Lyric Kinard (16:40.912) Right, very good. Your business is an online course. Tell me the other parts of it. Hannah Cole (16:46.923) Mm-hmm. Hannah Cole (16:52.851) Sure, yeah. So that is my primary offering. it's where I pour all my love, is this program called Money Bootcamp. is sort of multiple videos. And there's also a spreadsheet bookkeeping system that is included with it. And then a live quarterly session about how to calculate and pay your quarterly taxes. Lyric Kinard (16:56.986) Primary offering. Hannah Cole (17:21.363) Yeah, so that's the primary. I have some free things that I offer to sort of like build my list, like offer a valuable thing and get people kind of into my universe. Lyric Kinard (17:31.717) Yeah. And it's a higher end course, right? So it is offered on the launch model, I believe. Right? So you offer something, you're always offering something to get people into your system, into the top of your marketing funnel. And then you offer a free webinar or something to bring people in and really show them the value of what you have to offer, which then leads to a time limited opening of the course. Am I correct? Hannah Cole (17:35.243) Mm-hmm. Hannah Cole (17:55.669) Mm-hmm. Hannah Cole (18:01.097) Yeah, that's exactly how it works. Lyric Kinard (18:03.184) How did you... Did it take forever to get that going? Hannah Cole (18:11.099) I mean, in a way it evolved over time and it's improved over time. Yeah. I mean, originally, like the evolution of it is that I started out my original thought for sunlight taxes. I'm just going to do artists taxes. Like that, that's what I offered originally. Yeah. And, turns out that is a pretty rough business because it is hard to do. Lyric Kinard (18:18.04) as we do. Lyric Kinard (18:30.008) you're just going do it yourself. Hannah Cole (18:40.779) It is hard to do the amount of diligence that is like literally required by my license with the IRS. No, and it's a commodity. So I mean, that's sort of an economic term if you're not familiar. Like a commodity is something where like there's like a floor or like the price is kind of like. Lyric Kinard (18:47.042) It's also not scalable. Hannah Cole (19:04.667) not able to get, you can't charge that much for it. Like people have an expectation for like a price ceiling on a tax return because there's H &R Block, right? And there's Turbo Tax. And these two organizations kind of set the mindset of all customers where they sort of are like, well, I shouldn't have to pay more than I would pay H &R Block. And you're like, yeah, OK, but except that they're like a huge corporation that like can lobby. Congress to actually like change tax laws and I'm just a practitioner like we're really different So I realized that it's just incredibly hard to be profitable Lyric Kinard (19:41.976) Yeah, trading hours for dollars is, I mean, it might fulfill you. It's like teaching a class in person, right? It's amazing and lovely and wonderful and rewarding, but you only have so many hours. Hannah Cole (19:49.354) Yeah. Hannah Cole (19:56.108) For sure. Yeah, mean, even teaching a class is a little more scalable because you're teaching multiple people. The sort of really not scalable version of that would be one-on-one teaching. So if you get a classroom, yeah, exactly. But then, of course, you can expand out where if you teach a recorded video, it's sort of unlimited and unbounded by time. But. Lyric Kinard (20:06.768) Right, private coaching. Lyric Kinard (20:17.68) And pre-recorded things on demand can be evergreen and expand as much as you want them to. They're never, like I hate saying entirely passive income, right? Because you're either creating content or you're telling people about the content, right? You have to do both no matter what. Hannah Cole (20:39.455) For sure. yeah, I find that people kind of like sell that stuff as passive income and there's just there's nothing passive about it ultimately. Lyric Kinard (20:48.846) Yeah, but it is scalable and far more profitable than trading your dollars for hours. We love to ask people who have online teaching of any type what platform you use and how you like it. Hannah Cole (20:53.29) Yes. Absolutely. Hannah Cole (21:04.767) Sure, I want to ask you back. I use Podia, which has been around for a little while. They're one of the smaller, not a mega platform like Kajabi. I've been flirting with a move to Kajabi for a long time, but I keep not doing it because I have so much set up. Lyric Kinard (21:10.565) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (21:17.486) Right. Lyric Kinard (21:23.194) Kajabi is very expensive as well compared to podiha. Right. Are you happy with podiha? Hannah Cole (21:28.694) Mmm, yeah. Well, I'll say this. I'm mostly happy with them, but they have one feature that I like literally keep bothering them like, please, would you change this? Please, please, please. And it's been years, and they're clearly not going to. What I really dislike about Podia, and otherwise, I really like them and think they're great. But the thing that bothers me is that they don't let you group things into modules. It's just a huge laundry list of every little thing that's inside your program. And I have kind of a big program, and it's about an intimidating topic. And so people log in the first time, and they see like 100 things down the side, and they're like, oh my god. And they feel overwhelmed. And I think I probably get refund requests because of this feature in Podia. If I could just say unit one, unit two, unit three, Lyric Kinard (22:08.144) There's a lot of lessons there. Lyric Kinard (22:23.664) Hmm, interesting. Hannah Cole (22:31.049) I think that wouldn't happen to people. think psychologically, they'd be like, OK, cool. I see the path. Yeah. So that's my complaint. But I think what I do really like is that it has a lot of features. I personally want the control of building my own landing pages and my own forums and doing my own email marketing. I don't want to pay for all of that stuff through my teaching platform because I want to have the control. Lyric Kinard (22:36.65) Officially. Hannah Cole (23:00.555) But you can, those features exist in Podia if you need them, if you're like really early days. And what's really nice is you can kind of link one program to another. So if you have different offerings, when somebody buys this course, you can have Podia show them, if you bought this, you might also like this. And that's really helpful. Lyric Kinard (23:18.786) Right. Those are called either order bumps or bundling or upselling. All that follow on built in to a course platform is really helpful. Hannah Cole (23:24.224) Mm-hmm. Hannah Cole (23:28.863) Yeah, that stuff is nice. And I find the platform very easy to use. I I can throw up a new one hour session really fast. So I like it for that. I've had people who have to wait for somebody who's a contractor to do some programming before they can make updates. I'm like, that's for the birds. I don't want any of that. Lyric Kinard (23:39.95) Yeah, it's pretty simple. Lyric Kinard (23:52.485) Definitely not. Definitely not. That really holds you back because sometimes it's just a little thing that you need to take care of. And if you're able to do it yourself on your own platform, it's helpful. Hannah Cole (24:04.286) Absolutely. You want those. I mean, I like to just do it now while I'm thinking about it. I don't like to have a big laundry list that's like chasing me around. So yeah, it's nice to make changes as they come to mind. Lyric Kinard (24:13.552) Right. Yeah. Yeah. Podia is a nice, simple, it is one of the low key platforms. Right. Yeah. I have classes on there too, as well. As well as a million other platforms because that's what I get to do is try them all out so I can tell people about them. Right. Hannah Cole (24:23.926) Nice, yeah. cool, nice. Hannah Cole (24:35.308) Wow, do you have a favorite lyric? I'm just curious. Lyric Kinard (24:38.57) I don't think it's like asking about your favorite child. They all do very different, well, they all try to do things similarly and they all do them a little bit differently and some of them. Hannah Cole (24:42.24) Yeah. Lyric Kinard (24:53.89) Every single one I've tried has at least one thing that makes me insane and drives me buggy. For instance, Podia, when I get a student comment, it doesn't show me the student comment in line with the lesson. And I have art classes where I've got, you know, lists or photos, and I've asked them to choose one to do a critique of, and I get the critique and I don't know which one they're talking about. Hannah Cole (24:59.116) Mm. Hannah Cole (25:09.757) Hannah Cole (25:21.477) no. Lyric Kinard (25:21.55) Right. Without figuring out what class they're in. And so, you know, that's just a little thing that wouldn't bother most people. I am. It depends on what you're looking for. If you're starting from scratch, Sendler is one of my favorites. You can build in it it's kind of an all in one. You can build a full on website that is as customized or simple as you want pages, whatever. Hannah Cole (25:38.678) Huh, okay. Lyric Kinard (25:51.099) Blog can be on there. It's got the online course platforms, which do have modules in them. But it also has whole marketing funnel systems and webinar systems that has live Zoom built in and calendaring systems so you can do live coaching. They just added a community feature that actually looks like it might be pretty good. And email marketing. So it's kind of an all in one. Hannah Cole (25:53.366) Mm-hmm. Hannah Cole (26:16.203) Hmm. Lyric Kinard (26:20.781) I also use for the Academy's private membership, we use Mighty Networks. They started out as a community platform and then they added in courses. So I have yet to see anybody who does community better than they do. But on the other hand, they don't really have email marketing. can't build, you can't really edit the landing page like you want to and their payment processing systems are Hannah Cole (26:26.805) Okay? Lyric Kinard (26:49.817) I find them very clunky. I mean, I have a lot of classes where I want to offer on one page this price and a payment plan if you want to. And then I do social justice pricing. So I want different pricing levels all on one platform on one for one course. And that's, that's hard to find. Anyway, we're kind of off topic a little bit, but not really. No, that's no, this is what we do in this podcast. You know, all the Hannah Cole (27:06.123) Mm-hmm, yeah. Hannah Cole (27:12.267) Sorry, sorry, that was me. Lyric Kinard (27:19.169) how the sausage is made is part of what this podcast is about. We love going down the rabbit holes this way. This is really good. Let's get back though to, let's talk about some of the tax implications, some of the money management things. What is the Lyric Kinard (27:45.477) Default is not the word I'm looking for. What is the shortcoming or the mistake that you see most often with the creatives who come in and work with you? Hannah Cole (27:59.82) Sure. I think... I think probably the biggest one is just kind of not having it front of mind enough that what you're operating is a business. I mean, if you start a lawn mowing company or a, you know, there's a lot of things that are straightforwardly business and the people who are operating those things, they are well aware that it's a business. But I think a lot of people like us start to do a thing out of passion. And of course, That's who I want to serve. That's who I love hanging out with. Those are my people. I am that way too. But it's really important to recognize that when you're doing that, your best tax treatment comes when you are operating as a business, not something else, not a hobby, not a nonprofit. So I mean, those have their role, but they're generally not what a solo person is doing. really putting it in the front of your mind, you are seen by the IRS as a business. Even if you don't quite fully realize you are a business, that becomes a framework that helps you kind of put in, oh, OK, so these are deductions on my taxes that I'm spending money on here. Like, I should be tracking these. Or, oh, I need a separate bank account because that's going to actually help me manage my money in a more understandable way. clean way. A lot of like one of the sort of technical mistakes that people make, not because they're, you know, lacking, just they don't have the information is that opening a separate account for your, for your practice for your business is is key. It's like a key first move. Because when you do that, what it unlocks is it creates a record for you, it becomes the basis of your bookkeeping. Hannah Cole (29:57.398) So once you have a separate business bank account, now you can deposit all the money that you make from that activity into that account, and you spend your expenses, your deductible expenses out of that account. And now if you just think about what that bank statement looks like that you're creating, everything going in and coming out is business. And so now it's all clean, and now you don't have that nightmare that I used to have when I started out of like printing out my bank statements and going through them with a highlighter like, shoot, think that trip to Lowe's was for our business, I'm not sure. Lyric Kinard (30:29.969) Right. Right. I think there's something that switches in your mind too. When you go from, I'm just trying to side gig out to, I'm a business person. Right. Treat yourself as a professional and act accordingly. Hannah Cole (30:45.035) Absolutely. Hannah Cole (30:49.779) Absolutely. And also, think it feels like there's gatekeeping around businesses. But I just want everyone here to know that from the perspective of the IRS, you've already started. You're already in business. There's no like, I'll be a business. I'll be official when this special magical moment happens. That's actually not how it works with your taxes. Lyric Kinard (31:13.243) So they can treat you like a business even if you're not a registered sole proprietor or LLC. Hannah Cole (31:19.595) The IRS does not require any registration. It doesn't require an LLC. It doesn't even require business insurance. All those things that are shoulds on your list, not required for the IRS. And also, think about it for a moment from the IRS perspective, and it will unlock something for you. The IRS is not looking to say, no, hold up, not yet. The IRS is the tax collector. They're looking to say, yeah, you're already in here. come on in, we'll take the money, right? Like we're gonna take our cut. So the IRS is tracking you instantly and it's much better for you to know that than to be like, no, but I haven't formed an LLC yet or I haven't filed a DBA. Like, no, no, no, you're a business before any of that stuff happens to the IRS. So it behooves you to know that and then to actually take advantage of what you get to take advantage of, which is completely tax-free expenses of running your business. which is kind of an amazing benefit. Lyric Kinard (32:21.393) Right. And it's like I said, there's a whole long hundreds of lessons course on this because there is really so, so much to learn. But some of those, some of those simple things, tracking your mileage. didn't, when I took the Money Bootcamp, there were a couple of things that I didn't realize could be business expenses for artists. And I love what you do because you're working specifically with creatives, right? So there's things that your regular accountant is simply not going to be aware of. So there were a lot of things I was like, I did not know this was a write-off. Hannah Cole (32:55.562) Mm-hmm. Hannah Cole (33:06.782) Yeah. Hannah Cole (33:11.646) Yeah, it's so good to know. And in fact, the IRS is so generous. I know we're really fed a narrative. I'm not going to get political here, but there's a narrative coming at us that says taxes are bad. We should hate them all. In fact, it is in the general interest of the country for your business to thrive. And really, truly, your taxes are set up to help you thrive. Your business is prioritized because by giving you all these tax-free deductions, by allowing you all kinds of things you didn't realize you were capable of doing, like startup expenses, expenses of starting the business before the date that you actually start your business. In other words, the IRS has a retroactive category for you. Like, amazing. Did you know that? Like, a lot of people miss that one. So it's really good to know how it works because there's all this stuff that people don't take advantage of that they could be saving money with. Which is probably a good moment for me to just pull out this little visual that I have. Is that all right? I realize that people on the podcast, on the podcast, people are not going to hear this. Lyric Kinard (34:22.898) Absolutely. We'll describe it. Oh, the rainbow chart. I love this. love this. This is your one of the prettiest lead magnets I've ever seen in my life. Why don't you describe it for our listeners? Hannah Cole (34:36.51) Thank you. Sure. So this is such a core issue that we don't recognize everything that is deductible in our business. So I created this, yes, rainbow colored, very, very pretty visual guide to your tax deductions. And I have nine different versions for all different types of creative businesses. So you can kind of get it and pick the one that fits you the best. But It's kind of like a translation tool because what I find is that we tend to kind of get in our little lane and we speak the language of everyone in our lane, but that doesn't necessarily translate that easily to the language of the IRS. So this is a translator where the rainbow colored thing is how you describe the thing you spend money for on in your business, home studio, mileage, meals with business contacts, things that are really like fun and awesome. Lyric Kinard (35:26.364) Mm-hmm. Hannah Cole (35:33.309) And then I connect it with what the IRS calls it. So in this column here, the rainbow arrow points to exactly where that deduction goes on your tax return. And then there are some rules that are a little bit more complex, like cost of goods sold, inventory, home office, home studio. So some of the rules are a little more complex. And I have those all written out down the side, just so that you can kind of take this one page resource and print it out and just have it by your tax stuff and be like, okay, cool, now I know how to take the home office deduction because it's on there. Lyric Kinard (36:08.879) Absolutely. We will have this link in the show notes, in the descriptions, because you all need to go get it. was, first of all, it's pretty, but second of all, it's actually really helpful. It helped me. My whole accounting system is as easy as possible and I just have tax categories and whatever expenses come in, I download them from the bank and Hannah Cole (36:30.196) That's great. Lyric Kinard (36:36.111) just categories them straight into whatever tax category they go into. And it makes everything, when it's tax time, you click a button and make a report. And it makes it so easy. Hannah Cole (36:46.6) That's the way I love that. mean, that's the way to do it. Because then if you're doing categories that don't correspond to your taxes, then what you're doing is creating a sorting project for yourself at tax time. If you set up your categories in the way that the IRS has them set up, your tax time gets really easy because they're already there. You just have to total the columns. it's, yeah. Lyric Kinard (37:07.981) It makes it so much easier, so much easier. And so because we're teachers, I mean, you're teaching taxes and accounting. I'm teaching how to how to build online courses kind of things. But we also realize that people learn in different ways. You some of us just watching and listening to a video, it it doesn't really sink in very well. So I've watched you. You do a lot of videos. You also have an Hannah Cole (37:13.929) Mm-hmm. Hannah Cole (37:31.082) For sure. Lyric Kinard (37:36.417) absolutely amazing podcast and newsletter that all on their own without the money camp people she provides so much value it is so worth going and checking those out but you are also you have something really cool in the works this summer this year tell us about your book Hannah Cole (37:57.739) Sure. yeah, it's so exciting. So I can't believe I wrote a book. But I wrote a book. And I'm currently working on, but by the time you listen to this podcast, it will be done, a workbook that is a companion to the book. The book is like the learning. And then the workbook is the doing. But yeah, it's called Taxes for Humans. Simplify your taxes and change the world when you're self-employed. Lyric Kinard (38:17.648) Mm-hmm. Hannah Cole (38:26.632) And I'm so excited about it because it's taxes as I wanted to learn them. It's like you don't need to know anything about taxes or money going in. It doesn't assume you know anything. It just kind of teaches you in a very judgment-free way from creative to creative. And just speaking of different styles of learning, this book was the occasion for me to do a thing I have wanted to do for a long time, which is to create visuals. for a lot of tax concepts. As any, as all of you know who do this kind of thing. Yes, they are. They are so hard. It's the hardest work in the book. In fact, I knew that I knew that going in and I negotiated this was me learning a thing or two in my 10 years and as a business owner, I negotiated in my contract to own the diagram. So all the visuals are not Lyric Kinard (38:56.498) Hmm, fun. Are we talking to an artist? Hannah Cole (39:24.532) property of my publisher, they are mine, which means I can give them away. It's really nice because it represents like, you know, the thing is like once you see a visual and it makes you understand, then it feels obvious. And I'm like, that's cool. That's the feeling I want to give you. But getting to that visual is so much difficult work. And that's why that visual isn't out there yet, because it's so hard. Lyric Kinard (39:29.072) That's a huge thing. That's hard to get. Hannah Cole (39:53.183) So it's like, I want to own it. So, but I'm so excited about those visuals because I just think there are so many people when they see, buckets, like spouts pouring out of the buckets into my tax bucket. Like, that makes sense. Now I kind of understand what that thing is because, you know, lines on a tax return do not give you that sense of like, understanding. Lyric Kinard (39:55.773) Definitely, definitely. I can't wait to see this. Lyric Kinard (40:22.896) Yeah, visual mapping and creating flow charts and things like that help. We're visual people, right? We're creatives, we're artists. And seeing that is a huge, huge help. So there you go. You've got videos, you've also got Word, and now you've got the visual to, you're covering a lot of bases to help people learn something that's really, really important. Hannah Cole (40:32.745) Yeah. Hannah Cole (40:49.578) For sure. Also, I just want to mention that because I own these visuals, which I'm so excited about, I'm not sure. At the moment that we're recording, I don't totally know what all of my pre-order bonuses for the book and workbook are. But I believe where I'm tending is that I'm going to give away the visuals when you buy the workbook. You'll get them instantly. So just if that feels interesting to you, I just want to say that. Lyric Kinard (40:52.188) Mm-hmm. Hannah Cole (41:17.896) that will be something that I can deliver instantly during, you know, while the book is in pre-order. So. Lyric Kinard (41:25.116) So this brings up another idea that I run into with teachers all the time, is that if I give everything away for free, who's going to buy, right? And I see you as being ultra generous with the content that you put out, with the content that you freely give. We'll buy the book, we'll purchase the class, we'll buy the workbook, sure, but- Hannah Cole (41:31.722) Mm-hmm. Hannah Cole (41:54.218) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (41:54.679) everything around that is none of it's fluff. Every piece of content that you give away is so useful. So tell me about the why of that, why you do that and how it then works to actually support a profitable business. Hannah Cole (41:58.761) Mm-hmm. Hannah Cole (42:15.411) Sure. This is such a great question lyric and something I'm sure everybody listening struggles with. I think, one, it's in my nature already. And probably if you're listening, it's probably in your nature too. I just feel like I want to be generous and I want to be giving and I want to support my community and I don't want to gatekeep. There is a point where I do want to get paid for my labor. So it's not all free. Lyric Kinard (42:43.056) Yeah, we deserve, I mean, it's a communal support, right? Hannah Cole (42:44.937) For sure, for sure. But I feel there's a couple of things in there. One, I really feel that being authentic and generous is helpful because that really is who I am. And it's just reflecting something real. And I think when you give away something really valuable and well-crafted that's very generous, like for example, this visual guide to tax deductions. It helps people realize the amount of heart and soul you put into your other offerings and it makes it feel like, well, money bootcamp must be pretty good. If she puts this into the free stuff, the program must be good. And in fact, that is true. Lyric Kinard (43:30.148) It's all about relationship building. So if you want people to purchase from you, and as a teacher, as a creative, as somebody who's transferring skills instead of just a product, they need to trust that you're the person who will give them those skills, who will be generous enough to teach them everything they know to solve this problem that they have, right? So it's, I think it's one of the key. Hannah Cole (43:43.998) Mm-hmm. Hannah Cole (43:54.995) Yeah. Lyric Kinard (44:00.083) parts, that generosity and that connection that is true and authentic, right? Hannah Cole (44:10.374) Yeah, and let me tell you, I continue to sort of wrestle with this. As I went into this book deal and started writing this book and this workbook, I was like, I'm giving away everything that's in my program and more. Is anybody going to join my program if I put this all in a book that costs a fraction of what my program does? And I really wrestled with that. Is this wise? Am I doing something that's going to shoot myself in the foot? Lyric Kinard (44:34.834) Of Hannah Cole (44:39.186) I guess I thought, one, I want my legacy. This book is going to be sort of a legacy project. And I was like, I just want it to be amazing. I don't want to have held back in this book. And the fact is, whether or not it's repeating stuff that's in my program, I want the person who buys this book to feel not like they're just getting sold my bigger program. I want them to feel like they got the thing. And so I really built the book, wrote the book like, you're getting the thing. Lyric Kinard (44:47.868) Mm-hmm. Right. Hannah Cole (45:09.366) I'm not some like first step towards the larger thing. But I, but the thing that I had to really come to terms with there is that it's not necessarily the same person, right? Someone who reads the book is committed and who is not going to join the program. This is someone who is committed to reading every word and doing a lot of work on their own because you know, I'm teaching you how to set up a simple spreadsheet bookkeeping system. Lyric Kinard (45:13.745) Right. Hannah Cole (45:38.484) but I also have that already built for you if you just want to pay for me to have already done all the work, right? So like these are two different people. So. Lyric Kinard (45:47.799) You can also look at it, we always use the music metaphor, like you overhear music that your neighbor's playing or somebody around you over the speakers, right? And you find music that you love. And then, you know, back in the day, we would buy the CD or the album, right? And without first having heard it, or I guess we pay for the streaming we do, don't we? Hannah Cole (45:52.361) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (46:17.414) But without having heard that, why would we spend a boatload of money for a concert ticket when they come around? And I feel like the live programs that they get, to you on video or attending one of the live webinars that you host is a completely different experience from the book. know, sometimes you might have a chance to answer a question, or it's about the human connection part of it. Hannah Cole (46:25.213) Absolutely. Lyric Kinard (46:46.19) A book is amazing, but a face is a whole different kind of connection. Hannah Cole (46:53.14) Totally, I agree. And also like that book is going to be able to get into corners of the country that I can't access or don't currently have access to. It'll get passed from someone to another person. Somebody will check it out of a library. People will discover my work who don't have access to it now or who I'm not reaching now. And some of them, the book will be the end of it and that's okay. And some of them will be like, my goodness, I love the way that she teaches. me check out the program, right? Lyric Kinard (47:20.402) I have seen people come to conferences with a book held to their chest just like vibrating with excitement to take a class from the teacher that they have the book with. So it happens. I think they feed each other and they build on each other and I don't think it takes anything away. I'm excited for your book. I can't wait to see it. And again, we'll put links in the show notes. Well, Hannah, Hannah Cole (47:32.914) Ugh, I love. Hannah Cole (47:42.239) Yeah. Thank you. Lyric Kinard (47:50.088) This has been, I wish we had another hour. This has been so full of really juicy content. I like to throw out a quick question at the end and ask people just for fun because we're all creatives here and you can answer anything you want. What is the last thing you made? Hannah Cole (48:01.034) Sure. Hannah Cole (48:11.335) well, that's a little bit of a rough one because I lost my studio in Hurricane Helene, but. Lyric Kinard (48:18.227) Right. It doesn't have to be arty or whatever. Yeah, whatever. Hannah Cole (48:22.928) Yeah, let me think. Well, you know what? I'm preparing to make something this weekend. So maybe I'll talk about that. There's a mega sale happening at my local art store. And I went out and bought some silk screening supplies. And so I'm really like feeling free about it. I'm going to involve my kids. Lyric Kinard (48:28.339) Mmm. Hannah Cole (48:46.418) and just set up a silk screening station and try printing stuff. I don't even know what I'm going to make. Maybe it's going to be bookmarks. Maybe it's just going to be random, strange things. But I'm very excited. I'm very excited to just set up a silk screening station and kind of experiment a little bit. I haven't been in that playful mode in a long time, so I'm really looking forward to that. Yeah. Lyric Kinard (48:55.591) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (49:03.904) Go play. Go play with it. Lyric Kinard (49:09.509) Right, right. And on an aside, I want to thank you so much for the goodness that you have put into the community. You're in Asheville, North Carolina, where Hurricane Helene just wiped out the entire River Arts District. So many studios were devastated, including yours. And it's so heartbreaking. But we watched you in your media presence. share the generosity of people outside and around. You funneled donations to the locals who you knew needed them immediately. I believe so much in the love and the generosity that you put out there. It all comes back. It all comes back to you and you have so much that is on its way back to you. Hannah Cole (49:56.298) Mmm. Hannah Cole (50:02.545) I appreciate that so much lyric. you know what? Just circling back to the first thing we talked about and that like money mindset thing and amplifying your voice, like because of kind of working on these issues myself within myself and realize it, you know, and having more income and building a larger audience. When Helene hit, I had an audience of a size where and, you know, a reach that I couldn't have conceived of 10 years ago and that audience was just like, we're here. We've been reading your newsletter. We've downloaded the visual guide to tax deductions. We're here to support. Where can I send five or $20 or 100? Some people sent 500. mean, people were amazing. And so being able to turn around to my community in desperate need and just write a check to them for $2,000 or like just Venmo my friend $2,000 to make her rent because the painting job she just worked on had literally washed down the Suwananua River. Like that felt good. That was amplifying good in the world through money. So that was awesome. Lyric Kinard (51:13.905) So beautifully said, so beautifully said. May we all strive for that. May we all reach that potential to make the world a better place within us. Hannah, thank you so much for the time that you've spent with us. Hannah Cole (51:25.874) I love it. Hannah Cole (51:29.339) I appreciate it so much. Lyric, thank you for having me. And I just I love what you do and the people who you're supporting what they're doing. So I just it all feels so good. Lyric Kinard (51:38.717) such a mutual pleasure for all of us. Well, my friends, keep creative, keep loving and serving your people, keep teaching, keep building the amazing businesses that you are so that you too can go and do good in the world. Bye, friends.