How to Turn Handmade Art into a Scalable Creative Business | WoolBuddy Story

Jackie Huang (00:00.354) Mm-hmm. Huang. Lyric Kinard (00:00.46) How do I say your last name? Huang. okay. And do want me to use Jackie or your real name or is Jackie okay? Okay, because I can figure out how to pronounce it if you want me to do it. Okay. All right. Jackie, it is such a delight and a pleasure to have you with us today. Tell us who you are and what your business is. Jackie Huang (00:07.81) Yeah, thank you. It's Jackie Huang (00:28.718) Okay. All right, yeah, it's good to be here. My name is Jackie and I'm the curator, founder of WoolBuddy. Yeah, I was animators and also story artists. I used to work in the game industry and also the film industry. So, and then about like 15 years ago, I believe, 2010, I started my own business. So I launched the brand called WoolBuddy. We are teaching people how to do needle felting. Lyric Kinard (01:03.308) That's fantastic. As a fellow fiber artist, I adore watching people do needle felting. It is such a beautiful and fun and accessible art form. And for those of you who are listening and not looking on video, I encourage you to go to the YouTube channel so you can see what's in the background of... Jackie's video that gives you a clue to who he worked for as a 3D artist and storyboard. It's an amazing 3D needle felted R2D2. It's so cool. And I was telling you before that I'm just fangirling over here because the artists who work in gaming and movies are phenomenal, right? They are just... So you were an artist. You did things in a completely different way than Wool Buddy, which is needle felting, know, products and... How did that transition happen? How did you go from working for really well-known and very successful film and gaming industry people to a completely different medium and business model? Jackie Huang (02:26.869) Yeah, it quite... So basically I was a 3D artist. I was doing in a computer, right? So the old days, the virtual world, the computer, so we create movies. So I was doing previous Lucasfilm, the Clone Wars, the TV series. So during that time, a whole bunch of us, we went to Comic-Con in San Diego. My supervisor, my directors and a whole bunch of different story artists and we went and we bring the sketchbook. But during that time, I was so busy because I just had a newborn, so I don't have time to actually make my sketchbook. But I make some toy for my daughter. So then I just bring the woolbuddy to Comic-Con. And I was kind of like, what's... I don't know what to expect. People doing like a flat, right? So the 2D painting drawings. But I have like 3D characters. So, and it went really well. It's a five day event. I sold out the second day and I have to raise the price and to slow it down. It's just like the second day is all gone. Like I just sit at empty table talking to people and that's it. So the... Lyric Kinard (03:31.948) Hmm. Lyric Kinard (03:43.948) Yeah, if you haven't been to a Comic-Con, this is just a huge fandom for all different kinds of beautiful, amazing fantasy worlds. And the people who attend are often makers themselves. So it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that they were attracted to your wool buddies, your 3D... toys. Now did you have kits at that time or did you just have the finished needle felted things? Jackie Huang (04:16.268) No. Yeah, just a finished product. Just some great characters. So not a kit yet. So we haven't to that stage yet. Lyric Kinard (04:20.256) Right? Lyric Kinard (04:25.352) Right. So, and I love that you said you raised your price because as soon as you see there's a demand for it, know, when it sells out that fast, you know that you can raise your price, that the market will bear it. And that's a very smart thing to do. Needle felting especially is very time intensive. You know, it's also something that can be done while you're sitting around doing other things, but it's not. just fling it out there fast and you can't make digital prints of it. It's a one-off, right? So what happened after Comic-Con? Jackie Huang (05:03.394) Yeah. Yeah, so at Comic Con, because I sit there, so one of the another supervisor sitting next to me, he looked at the whole situation, he asked me a question. So that actually is kind of make me start to think about the business because he says, are you serious or you just goof around? So I say, I'm probably serious and not just, you know, have fun and do something. think I want to do something with this. So the first thing he said, go find a lawyer. He said, wow, that was so I never think of that. And then he said, yeah, you need to protect all your brands. So you need to have a trademark. You need to have some kind of structure. So that way, when you launch a business, then you are fully protected. So. Lyric Kinard (05:41.356) Hmm. Jackie Huang (05:57.398) And then I started to think about, how can I make that into a business? And then I started creating more. I tried to use all kinds of different methods and invent machines and doing things, but it all failed. So it doesn't work at all. Lyric Kinard (06:13.514) All right, so this is interesting. Two things that I want to reiterate, because so many of the artists and creatives that we work with, as they go into deciding that they want to create a business from that, right, whether they're teaching or like you are doing creating a product, we kind of continue to see it as a hobby. And you, from the beginning, that was such good advice to treat it professionally, to treat it as you are a professional, you are a business, and there are as many different ways to create and run a business as there are people, but this is the way that work for you, and it is important to protect your intellectual property. Lyric Kinard (07:11.636) So what was next after getting set up, protected, getting the trademark, getting the copyrights, getting everything set up? I'm assuming you licensed as whatever sole proprietor, LLC, corporation. You got everything in order before you started. Jackie Huang (07:25.1) Yeah, so, yeah. Yeah, I kind of like just to do and learn so we go a lot of try to do a lot of different passes and then so before not for LLC actually we were sole proprietor for a very long time So kind of like just me and then we try to do things And we don't feel that's a business yet, even what we have a lawyer So we actually talked to a very good lawyer and then she's helping us and try to Because she's a lawyer for Lyric Kinard (07:44.684) Mm-hmm. Jackie Huang (07:58.734) for artists and she actually helping a lot of artists to try to start a business. So we all said, but still don't feel like business because there's no income. So yeah, it's just like we do it. I went to Comic Con, we're so good, we sell good, but still I cannot quit my job until... one of the museum in downtown San Francisco, they contact, they want to carry my line. So they want to carry my work and put in their museum. So, and during that time, then we started providing, I started making for them. And then they pretty much can sell about like for about $2,000 worth of product per month. So they say, that should pretty good. One museum can sell that much. And now I just had to... I just had to find 10 of them. Lyric Kinard (08:54.624) Were you still making products or were you kits? Jackie Huang (08:57.843) Yeah, single one I made, every single one, the original. Lyric Kinard (09:02.058) Yeah, so you're trading your hours for each dollar, right? As an artist, as a creator, you're making a thing and selling the thing which takes your time, which is only scalable to a certain point because time is finite, right? Jackie Huang (09:05.772) Yes. Jackie Huang (09:16.78) Yeah, it's not at all. it's a is we always facing is we running out of inventory. We're running out of of product. So it's just like we have to work very long hours to just make them and we cannot charge them my hourly rate because if you if you sell one little fail creator for over thirty dollars, nobody will buy it. So then we have to sell we have to make a lot. Lyric Kinard (09:25.6) Mm-hmm. Jackie Huang (09:43.446) And I start asking people to help me make shapes and start finding things and creating machines to do it. But it is not working. So, yeah. Lyric Kinard (09:52.812) It's still a handmade thing. I remember the other thing. You tried and failed. You tried a whole bunch of different things. So many people when they try a thing or two or three and it doesn't work, they're like, this just isn't gonna work. What made you keep going? Why did you keep with this instead of going, well, I have this stable other day job. I have this other thing. Jackie Huang (09:57.858) Yeah. Lyric Kinard (10:19.884) You know, why am I doing all this work and suffering? Jackie Huang (10:20.302) So it Yeah, it's just like a kind of try and find out right because I cannot If I have this idea I want to try it even even I know you're gonna fail but I still want to try and see if this is gonna work or it's not So there's so many errors. We make so many mistake and so many things. It's not working but the good thing about that is Once it's not working, so you know this is not working. And then you don't have to do the same thing again. Then you find a new way to at least somehow it gonna be right. Lyric Kinard (11:04.46) Right? This is the thing that too many people get hung up on is if something doesn't work, they think they personally are a failure instead of looking at it as this is a vital and essential part of the learning process. That's what we do as artists, right? We don't draw like Michelangelo the first time we pick up a pencil. We do a lot of bad stuff before we get good. And every process you try that doesn't work, You look at it and analyze it, and that is essential learning that you needed to get to the next step, right? Just like you said, you know that thing needs to change. This part doesn't work. Maybe this part of it does, and we just let go of that and figure out what to do with the next thing. Jackie Huang (11:52.878) Yeah. all the failure is actually good. It's a lot better because if we keep doing the same thing over and over, usually it won't lead to success because you just stay there. a lot of times we need to punch in the face to wake up. So all of our breakthrough is because of the failure. Lyric Kinard (12:12.844) Yeah, for sure. Lyric Kinard (12:21.388) Absolutely, you know and as it just as an artist creating right some of my biggest growth times have been from absolute disasters that happened and instead of going That's it. I'm done you it turns you in a direction that you never thought possible and it was a vital lesson that you needed to learn in order to progress to a higher level Jackie Huang (12:48.398) Yeah, so like for example, like you mentioned, we selling DIY kits, right? But the beginning we just sell the pre-made, so we never think about doing the kit. But I self-publish a book, so it's a tabletop book. It's just like a collection of my work. Most artists, they have their sketchbook, it's a collection of their work, right? So I just follow the same path to do the collection of my felt characters. Lyric Kinard (12:53.644) You Jackie Huang (13:13.792) And I have a thousand copies. print a thousand copies. I hope we can sell it out in one trade show. And then being six months, no, none. We still have like 800, 900 copies and the salary is low. It's like, my God, I put a lot of money to print this and I still have all that inventory. So one thing we say, okay, let's think about how, because there's a book and people pick it up and flip through and then they put it down. There's no nothing in there. They need to take it home. Lyric Kinard (13:17.388) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (13:26.368) Whoops! Lyric Kinard (13:43.734) right. Jackie Huang (13:44.27) And so we have this idea, just, okay, let's put one sheet of paper about the instructions and let them try it. And then we put a little very cheap plastic bag and put one small needle and just like very little amount of like material, just about like this. So you can make like little tiny penguin. And then we sold out in our like a couple of shows, we sold out the whole like 800 copies. So that was that. Lyric Kinard (13:52.118) Mm-mm. Lyric Kinard (14:00.928) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (14:10.164) Yeah, it's turning it from consuming something into a participatory experience. Jackie Huang (14:17.368) Yeah, it's just like, my God, that's, people want it, people want to do it. And then that's how it gave me this idea. It's like, people really want to do this. So then I start to develop different kits, like see how to show people, how to make them. Because the first thing, it's a conflict, right? So you are artists, you discover this amazing technique to do needle file and you can create work. And you're afraid other people to learn this. and they start becoming your competitor. Once they learn, because it's not hard, it's very simple. And they learn this, they can make their own, and then we have a lot of competitors. But once I jump out of that, so people want to learn this, and I can still be a good artist, I teach people how to make them. So I don't have to afraid they be my competitor, because everyone has their own styles. Lyric Kinard (15:09.996) That's so important too, is that we can come from a mindset of fear and scarcity. And that's what competition is, right? When you look at the world through, I'm competing with other people, that automatically puts it someone wins and that means somebody has to lose. And that's a completely different mindset than abundance and collaboration. Right? We as teachers are collaborating with our students. And one of my mentors at the very beginning when I was learning my art form, and she is like the doyen, she is the queen of the textile art, art quilt world. And we're like, you know, when you make your patterns, when you give people, teach people how to do your thing, Aren't you afraid that they'll do it? And she goes, no, everybody knows my work. Nobody will ever make a Carol Breyerfowler gentry quilt. They know that that's my work and it brings me joy. And she just, this is also back in the early days of the internet where artists were really afraid to put pictures of their work online because they're afraid somebody is still it. She goes, I just choose not to worry about that. It's not worth it. the energy, right? And as teachers, especially, that's what we do. You make your work and nobody can actually make your work. And that's what the book is. It was inspiration. It was your brainchild, your creativity, but then letting them into the joy of the process is a whole different thing. So that... collaboration between you as the artist and then your customers as co-creators is a joyful thing instead of a fearful thing. And what happened because of that? Jackie Huang (17:15.832) Yes, totally. like nowadays, So like AI, so what we found is not about the final product or the final work, right? The artwork. It's more about the journey. So the experience, right? So once you are making something, not about how good you are, it's about your experience. You experience the journey through art and you kind of, you get emotional, you learn, and then you feel it. So then that's a very unique AI cannot take that away. Lyric Kinard (17:47.884) Absolutely. AI can give you information, but it cannot give you an experience. And art is so individual and so, you know, a robot can't take over our hands and do the thing for us. You know, this is something that I think is so important and so needed in the world right now. People need that making, that seeing a product of their own hands. Jackie Huang (17:54.307) Yeah. Lyric Kinard (18:18.792) So I'm sure it was a giant process figuring out kits and sourcing materials and getting it all put to, know, just there's so much involved in merchandise, right? Jackie Huang (18:32.398) Yeah, it's huge. I was in my garage like all the entrepreneurs. And one day, our city official actually knocked my door and they are going to turn down my business. You cannot do any business in the garage. So I said, how about a sleep job? They hold stuff in the garage, right? They said no, actually no, that's illegal. You cannot do any business in the garage. Garage is supposed to be garage, put in car. You cannot do any business related. Then I realized, wow, that's, because I was packing kits in my garage with all the boxes, material and things. then, wow, there's a law, you cannot do business in the garage. Lyric Kinard (19:23.958) Maybe you can do it in your basement or your house, but who has room for that? Jackie Huang (19:27.778) Yeah, yeah. they say anything business related, if you have a business license, right, so we cannot do it in the garage. Yeah, then actually that also is another turning point. And then we start using the third party warehouse. So we start to, okay, we cannot do that. What should we do? Because then we find some local shops so they can help us pack those. And that's why I can actually scale this because they... Lyric Kinard (19:34.634) Right. Okay. Lyric Kinard (19:42.124) Hmm. Jackie Huang (19:56.63) they can do a lot quicker than me and also it's cheaper. that way we can start, I can start more focused, not because I was doing packing every day, so I can start focusing more on the art side to the teaching side. Lyric Kinard (20:12.542) Mm-hmm. All right, and you now do you have a brick and mortar shop now? Jackie Huang (20:17.806) Not our own, but we sell to the museum stores and other channels and also online. Lyric Kinard (20:25.396) All right, so you have a product and you are a distributor of that product and other people sell it for you. Now, let's turn to when we first met, you were talking about this amazing business and it is a very successful business. know, it is doing really, really well. And you're so busy with that. So Jackie Huang (20:31.682) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (20:54.878) You had talked about adding online education. Does that already exist or are you building it and why? Jackie Huang (21:04.942) So most of the comments we found when the customer coming, so we're selling kits, DIY kits, where the kit has a material, instruction, and tool. And also we have a video. So that's already kind of teaching. But for me, it really sad. A lot of times they come back and say, oh, I bought your kit last year. They haven't even opened it. So they haven't started because this feels like there's a... Lyric Kinard (21:11.084) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (21:25.654) Hmm. Jackie Huang (21:34.196) invisible wall between actually you bought a kit and that you're actually doing it. So there's an invisible wall so I want to break that wall so people can actually enjoy and experience and because we are doing a Maker Faire so those are usually successful. We are there and we help them so they are not afraid. when you try to a new art form you're always afraid right so how about if I messed up? So I'm not very crafty. I don't know how to do this. So that's why I gave me the idea. We want to build a community and we want to build an online education so they can join us and ask me questions. It's a life, so they join me. So it's not just a watching YouTube tutorial because there's so many there already. Lyric Kinard (22:01.642) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (22:06.102) Right? Lyric Kinard (22:21.962) Yeah, that's amazing. And that's the difference between information and experience, Access to you live, even if they're, like I have a lot of on-demand classes that are just straight up series of videos and tutorials and things, but they still can email me, know, leave a comment with a question. And that's the value. I'm a fearless artist. Jackie Huang (22:27.63) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (22:49.444) love playing around new mediums, new things, but even then there are so many things that I can read a book about it, I can have all the supplies and then tell somebody holds my hand the first time and it only takes two steps and then I like, I got this, know, thanks. But being with somebody who knows how to do it absolutely breaks down that wall of that fear of what if I do it wrong? What if I waste these materials I don't have anymore? What if it's you know, all of these irrational fears, right? So you're looking at, you have YouTube videos, you have written instructions, you have the kit, but you're offering, are they just live Zoom courses or are you mixing on-demand paid courses with live Zoom experiences? Jackie Huang (23:42.958) The plan is mixing. So we already have some kind of pay recording courses, but we want to have kind of like once a week and we have kind of like office hours. So this is like craft night so people can just pop in and then work on something if they have questions. Lyric Kinard (23:46.86) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (23:51.468) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (24:04.556) Is there a community aspect in between that area? Jackie Huang (24:08.046) Yeah, right now we have Facebook group and also we are trying to build another new platform and try to see if that can have like a schedule and all the information and we can maintain that. Lyric Kinard (24:23.178) Mm-hmm. Are you actually building your own custom platform or are you using? Jackie Huang (24:29.358) No, we are thinking about scool. Lyric Kinard (24:33.004) Scool is fantastic, I've heard. Really great community and the courses can be in there. And there so many platforms that work just fine for this, right? And they make it so easy to use. Jackie Huang (24:45.346) Yeah. Jackie Huang (24:51.256) Yeah, very easy. It's all there. I don't need to code anything. It's just there. Just run it. Lyric Kinard (24:57.324) And I think what you said about having a community, the community aspect is so important. And I've been teaching online for more than a couple decades. So the evolution has been really dramatic. And it's only been in the last and probably since COVID and the last couple of years, it's really come to this, especially with AI, like we talked about, is that people are craving creative connections. They're creating that being with like-minded people, enjoying the creative experience together, supporting each other. So community becomes sometimes more important than the instruction itself, right? Jackie Huang (25:50.478) No. Yeah, they come into the workshop, especially in person workshop. Most of time they are not for like, actually they want to be professional at this art form or craft form. It's more for, I want to spend two hours, three hours with my friends and making something. Yeah. Lyric Kinard (26:13.803) Yeah, just having the fun, right? And in that case, it absolutely is just a connection with real people, right? So how do you foster that online? How do you make that happen? What are some of the ways that you encourage people to keep connected together? Right now you're on Facebook. I love that you're moving into another platform because I've been an amazing Facebook. Jackie Huang (26:15.948) Yep. Jackie Huang (26:24.706) Yeah. Yeah. Lyric Kinard (26:43.628) groups and private groups and things like that, paid courses even, but you don't own that and it can disappear at any time, right? So having something outside of Facebook can be really important. So how are you working on building that part of your business, the online community and courses? Jackie Huang (27:05.154) Kind of right now we are in a transition, right? So we're still doing lots of like in-person workshops. we travel, actually I travel around and teaching different, in different country and different kits. Lyric Kinard (27:12.812) Mm-hmm. Jackie Huang (27:23.214) So I kind of wanted to help bring them back. So every time we do a trade show, we always have one sign up sheet so they can join our online workshop to encourage them to continue to this experience online. So we're still trying to, we're not sure yet. Sometimes the online workshop is doing really well and sometimes it's kind of quiet. So I have to keep talking and then sometimes running very smooth. Lyric Kinard (27:29.868) You Lyric Kinard (27:47.116) Mm-hmm. Jackie Huang (27:51.468) So it really depends on who's joining and also what topic and what time. But I found it's actually, don't take that as, know, this isn't gonna work or this is not. It's more like just keep doing that and then become very consistent and then this will... Lyric Kinard (27:54.326) Mm-hmm. Right. Jackie Huang (28:12.778) I'm not looking at the result. more like this is something I want to support our customers, so support our audience. So they can enjoy the felting and they can have that experience that I have and then I just distribute to them. Lyric Kinard (28:27.584) Right, and it's a continual, it's back to that same, try it out and see what works, right? So building this in, I find that one thing that works really well, for those of you out there listening who want to build communities, but also find a lot of your audience in person is a QR code right there so they can right away join into the community and then a prompt. Jackie Huang (28:32.718) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Lyric Kinard (28:57.056) right away, an assignment right away to get them to post one thing, right? And, you know, and also having done the online courses for a very long time, this is one thing that new online teachers kind of, especially coming from the in-person teaching world, we freak out about it. I have found that at least 50 % of the people who sign up for paid courses, even expensive paid courses, they just don't show up. And that's okay. You you serve the people who do show up and they might be in the background, they might be participating silently or not, and you're still serving them, right? But it does take work to encourage the community and keep it going. It also takes kind of a critical mass of if you don't have like a an assignment, something, a challenge or something that they're going through together online. It takes a certain number of people to kind of keep the thing going without a huge struggle on the teacher's part. Jackie Huang (30:09.336) Yeah, and for us, we kind of before the class, before the workshop, we prepare them. So, and usually we are, because we are selling kits, right? So those online classes are free for now, but we encourage them to prepare, so have a certain tool. So we already have a video to preview what kind of tool they need, what to expect in the workshop. So they already prepare the material, prepare the tool. So when they come join the workshop, they already have, they all get very excited. So they, they want to get to work. And I found very interesting is one very successful is when, when I used to start workshop, right. So I kind of like introduce myself, introduce my company, talk about all this at the front. And I found that's not a very best way. And I found I should put that in the middle because the workshop, they should get right to it. Right? So right to work on something. And then once I work and then they can hear what I'm talking about, we start to chat, talk about the experience, talk about where the boobuddy came from, what make a good felting and about all those. Then we then make this workshop alive. So it's not like, you sit there for like five, 10 minutes for just me talk about try to promote my company and they get really bored. Lyric Kinard (31:07.276) Mm-hmm. Jackie Huang (31:30.752) And then once they are eager to just try to move on, to make something themselves. Lyric Kinard (31:31.244) Right? Lyric Kinard (31:37.664) That speaks to what people are there for and what we as teachers are here for. And this applies to social media videos, this applies to YouTube, this applies to any tutorial or anything. Even if the whole video is you telling your life story, right? It's not about us. They are there not to see how great we are or how pretty or how polished. Jackie Huang (31:58.198) Yeah. Lyric Kinard (32:06.1) our video is they're there because they want to have an experience of doing a thing. So get to it immediately. Get to the hook of what are you going to get from this and get right into it. I totally agree. It's such a more effective formula to tell them immediately what they're going to get, start giving it right away. And then, you know, you can. Jackie Huang (32:10.851) Mm-hmm. Yeah, get to it. Lyric Kinard (32:31.948) put in your promotion or whatever education you need to do. I like to do it not just also in the middle, but kind of sprinkle it all the way through. Give them little bits that feel like they naturally belong in that part of whatever I'm teaching. There are a few classes I teach that we do talk for 15 or 20 minutes before we get into the thing, but I'm involving them in it. Usually it's like, here's the outline of what we're doing today. Why are you here? What are your expectations? And go around and get that and reflect back to them what they hear. And that's like in an abstract design class that I teach, right? So it's very cerebral kind of, it's not project oriented. So it's really hard to say, you're gonna have this at the end of the day. It's more like you're going to think this and know this. So. pulling that out of them, the expectations, helps me to tailor the class to exactly what the people there need, right? And it's about them. Jackie Huang (33:35.342) Yeah, it's about them. Lyric Kinard (33:37.91) Right. So I love that you are coming to that and you are doing that. What do you imagine this part of your business to look like in a year from now if it was like seamless and easy and, you know, push a button and it's perfect? Jackie Huang (33:59.726) So I'm excited. It's going to be a lot of challenges and we kind of looking forward to that. Looking forward to the challenges, looking forward to the failure, looking forward to something that's not working. And then once we don't see that's a failure and that's not working, and we feel like that's part of it, part of the business, part of our growth. and then I feel a lot more relaxed because I'm not afraid to make mistakes and I can just go for it. So what do we see in the next few years? Because I think the beginning I was so worried, right? So always worried, always stressed. So now I want to be a lot more relaxed, so mentally prepared. And it's not like I'm, it's all perfect. No, it's gonna be like, so hard, so challenging, but my mental will still function very relaxed and still can be very fun and enjoyable. Lyric Kinard (35:06.604) Will your business that you envision you're having kits made, source shipped, but somebody else is doing all that, right? And your time is involved in managing that quality control, you know, just designing, which is the fun part. And then interacting with your customers is the main time expenditure. Jackie Huang (35:17.912) Yeah. Lyric Kinard (36:16.574) So the time that you'll be putting in is the ideas and then the interaction with your people, right? Jackie Huang (36:30.606) Yeah, I need to be more focused on what's my hour, right? What's I've been working on. So I still draw to do the shipping. I still draw to because those are like, oh, immediately I have to do it, right? But I need to be very careful about how to use my time and how to don't forget a lot of time business take over. So an artist disappear. So then you become a businessman, not an artist anymore. Lyric Kinard (36:37.42) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (36:55.926) Mm-hmm. Jackie Huang (36:59.758) So this is something I need to be very careful about. when I, it changed, right? So when you create art, you don't usually don't think about how I'm gonna sell this, how they're gonna make them, right? So you just make it and you enjoy it you make it like very complicated and very nice. But no one can actually reproduce that. So if you are business minded, so okay, no, you cannot put that much effort because that will be very expensive. So we need to find the right balance to move forward. Lyric Kinard (37:33.546) Right, and when you get to a certain point in your business, especially with merchandise like that, but in other things, there are jobs that you have in your business, but then there are the things that only you can do that provide the value, right? And the art, the designing, and the interacting with your people as the face of your business. Nobody else can do that. Nobody else can provide that. Those are high value things. Jackie Huang (37:50.958) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (38:02.26) And they're the things that actually create the value in your business, right? But then there are jobs that could be a minimum wage, somebody else could do it. And so many times we think we have to do all the things. That's been a really hard thing that I've learned as well, that it's hard to let go of having control over all of the things in my business. But when you bring on team members, Jackie Huang (38:23.246) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (38:31.456) that gives you more time to do the parts that fill your soul, but also provide the high value for your business. So that's when you can start scale. I encourage people to offload as soon as possible. Jackie Huang (38:45.058) Yeah, every time we bring a new member on board and the business breaks through. because it does, you cannot, you won't be able to know everything or you do everything. So once we offload that and they actually work a lot better than just I do in it. Lyric Kinard (39:04.46) and the artist is able to come back. I love that. I love that. It has been such a pleasure to hear about your business. I have a couple questions to end up with. If you could go back and give advice to your beginning wool buddy business self, what is a thing that you think would help you progress the quickest? Jackie Huang (39:36.174) So I would say don't be afraid, don't think too much. During that time I think I was thinking too much. kind of try to make everything perfect. then this I get really procrastinated and that's why it can be done like very quick but it's just I try to prepare, prepare, prepare and then fail, right? So if you just try it and fail and then no, this is not gonna work and then change it up. I think I will say I will enjoy more. I will just feel more so not stressed out. So it's just like, this is something I can enjoy even something I really don't like, like the IRS audit. then I can kind of enjoy how I feel. So it's not just I get stressed out and then try to just get over with. Lyric Kinard (40:25.846) Hmm. Lyric Kinard (40:35.286) Right, work through it, fail faster so you can grow faster. Yeah, excellent. I love that. Question number two, what is the last thing you made? Jackie Huang (40:39.256) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jackie Huang (40:48.172) Last thing I I made a little opossum. Yeah, and I tried to figure out how many kids I need to give this little opossum. Lyric Kinard (40:52.63) I love it. I love it. Lyric Kinard (40:59.14) cute. Although I live in the American South and have had a few encounters with opossums on very early morning walks that were not cute. They have a hiss. that's fantastic. They are very cute to look at. And the babies on the backs are adorable. Thank you so much for your time. Jackie Huang (41:08.686) Uh huh. Uh huh. Yeah, but our OpaClassic cube, we already sold out. I can't ask you out because we don't have any... Lyric Kinard (41:27.401) Where can people find you online? Jackie Huang (41:30.237) Wobbly.com Lyric Kinard (41:32.01) woolbuddy.com. Look up Jackie, where are some of the places coming up that you might be traveling to? Jackie Huang (41:40.45) So I'm going to Japan for our show and also I'm in New York and Atlanta and also Chicago in April. Yeah, that'll be fun. Lyric Kinard (41:53.13) That's exciting. Are you going to the trade show in Chicago to H &H? exciting! I will see you there. That's fantastic. Jackie Huang (42:26.668) Yeah. Jackie Huang (42:38.126) Thank you, yeah, it's a lot of fun. All right. Okay, thank you.