How Anne Fjeld Built a Knitting Business That Changes Lives

Lyric Kinard (00:00.396) Okay. Hello friends. We are here with Anna Fjeld, who I was so delighted to meet virtually. She is nowhere close to me. This virtual magic has allowed us to have conversations across the world. Anna, you are in Norway and I would love for you to introduce yourself and your business to our audience. Anne (00:27.597) Thank you. Yes, I'm in Norway and thank you so much, first of all, for having me. I really appreciate that. That's fun. I love talking about my business. So, you know, whenever. Well, I'm a knitter, a knitting designer. I used to be in the corporate world. Anne (00:48.173) For all kinds of reasons, I ended up doing knitting design and tried to make my living in doing it in Norway. In Norway, everyone knows how to knit, so it was a bit difficult. Lyric Kinard (01:00.526) So you're talking, preaching to the choir, they already know most of the things? Anne (01:05.453) Yeah, because they do. do. The Norwegians are, are, you in, you guys are like 350 million people or close to it anyway in the US as far as I know. In Norway we are five and a half million people. So, and there are so many knitting designers. So you are competing. You're competing in a market where everyone knows how to knit and Lyric Kinard (01:24.654) Hmm. Anne (01:34.549) Everyone wants their pattern for free and you know, that's not sustainable. You can't make a business from that. I did manage because I did open a yarn shop online and I did manage for a couple of years to make that profitable. And then something happened in the yarn market over here so I had to think differently. And then in 2019 it was this last, I had been struggling for a few years and then was this last, 2019 I decided, okay, this is now or never, it's a last pull to make this happen. Because I really, really wanted to be, I don't know how much you want to know about that, but I, you know, I did have a burnout, complete burnout after this corporate wealth thing. And I realized I needed to make my own fortune, you know. Lyric Kinard (02:22.83) I think that is so common though when we give our all to something else that is not coming from inside us, right? Burnout is such a real thing and we have to survive. I mean, we have to be able to pay the mortgage and have a roof over our head and have food to eat. And you have to do that somehow, but... Anne (02:45.303) Mm. Mm. Lyric Kinard (02:50.552) this crash and burn that kind of forces so many of us into something else. It's painful, but sometimes it's the fire that lets the phoenix rise, right? Anne (03:04.69) It is so true. It is so true. Because what happened with me was that I was actually on top of that. We have a really good system in Norway, completely different than what you have, a social security system, which is way out of your league, to be quite honest. But we have a year to kind of, you know, you're not living off, you're not living like the kings and queens, but you have a year to kind of find your footing. Lyric Kinard (03:14.467) Hmm. Lyric Kinard (03:21.048) For sure. Anne (03:29.365) And then with a certain amount of money being supported with that. But then after that, you have to make a decision. I was during that call. At that point, I went to talk to a person because I had too much in my, you know, the top hair that needed to get in my head, that needed to get out. So I went to see a person, not a traditional therapist, but, you know, a conversational person. And she challenged me in... three quarters of a year later after into this burnout to challenge me what you want to do and I had used my knitting as a way of getting out of the burnout because I could knit with my eyes closed so it was a way of keeping staying awake instead of falling asleep because I was at you know I couldn't sit up I couldn't hold my head up I was lying on the sofa I always went out of the bed and down to the sofa because I Lyric Kinard (04:12.845) Hmm Anne (04:24.301) didn't want to lie in bed all the time, right? And she said, what do you want to do? Yeah, totally, totally. You know, my brain didn't work, body didn't work, nothing worked. I ran 10K on Monday and woke up, no, on Tuesday and woke up on Wednesday at seven o'clock p.m. Went to bed at eight o'clock the day before, and you know, so I really, it was a tough one. But then... Lyric Kinard (04:27.159) It was a complete physical crash. Lyric Kinard (04:48.653) Mm-hmm. Anne (04:49.575) She challenged me and she said Anne what do you want to do with the rest of your life because what happened was that I was laid off in the middle of all this. In Norway we have really strong rules around that. So I had a lawyer look at that thing for me and help me a bit. I was not in the state of defending myself at all at that point but I had some friends and some friends and some friends that helped me out a bit and that lawyer challenged them quite a bit so I got a fair amount. Lyric Kinard (05:00.493) Mm-hmm. Anne (05:18.763) of cash to compensate for that and then that gave me the freedom to think differently. So then my coach told me, I'll call her, let's just keep it like that. Let's call her my coach. And she said, but Anne, what do you want to do with the rest of your life? Do you want to go back to corporate world or do you want to find another way? Or is that, you know, if you can pick from the top shelf, whatever you want. And I looked at her and I said, whatever I want, then I would knit. And then I started laughing, you know, that well, you know, but I, of course I can't do that. Right. And then she looked at me and she said, who says that you can't do that? Four weeks later, I had 50,000 Norwegian Krone, that is like $5,000 worth of yarn in my living room. Lyric Kinard (06:19.66) Mm-hmm. Anne (06:21.109) And two months after that, I opened the online yarn shop with my own designs. And at that point, I had never designed for other people at all. So, and then this was in Norwegian, all of it. did it, everything was in Norway. And then it went okay. And I built an audience and it went really well. I had some really good years before... Lyric Kinard (06:26.562) Mm-hmm. Anne (06:47.669) I missed out on a couple of things that happened in the market that I should have been aware of but I wasn't because I was so in my own little bubble at that point. Then decided to close it. Go back to the corporate world in one way or another, got myself a job, took nine months and there we are again, there we go again. Back into... I didn't go as far as last time because I... but it was like I can't do this, sorry. And that's... Lyric Kinard (06:57.326) Mm-hmm. Anne (07:17.215) when I decided you need, you have to make this work in one way or another because you can't work for others because you need to have your off time when you need it not when the corporate, your business, your employer allows you to but when you need it and Lyric Kinard (07:37.752) night. Anne (07:41.783) Then I thought, okay, what are we gonna do? I spent a few years in England, as you probably can hear from my accent. But I've been in London for a couple of years and I knew how to speak English fairly well. I had been working for global companies for 15 years and I spent, you know, used my English a lot. And then I thought, let's do this in English. That had been a dream of mine, actually. Lyric Kinard (08:03.608) Mm-hmm. Anne (08:10.987) I never dreamt about getting into this business, but when I got into it, I thought, okay, to make a break in the US and Canada would be awesome. But I never managed to get that any further. But at this point it was like, okay, we're doing it. So I started doing it and I tried in Norwegian and English and I soon realized that this is not going to work. I have to decide. So I ditched all my Norwegians. They were a bit upset. Lyric Kinard (08:22.296) Right? Lyric Kinard (08:38.058) no. Anne (08:40.237) I did it over, you know, I spent a year preparing them and then since then since last four years I've been doing this in English only Lyric Kinard (08:50.222) And this by this you looked around and you saw a market that was much larger than what you already had access to you were kind of forced into expanding and thinking differently and I think so many of us I don't know anybody in our Creative teaching industry who as a little kid said I want to be a knitting teacher when I grow up, right? Anne (09:16.513) like this. Lyric Kinard (09:17.258) I had no clue that any of this world even existed that I'm working in this big ocean that I'm swimming in. So you look around and you see some different possibilities. Give us an overview, a big picture of what your current business looks like now. What do you do? Who do you serve? Anne (09:40.717) Yeah, I'm serving the North American continent, so it's like the US and Canada. Having said that, more more Europeans are coming into my world without me spending time on trying to get them. I'm focusing everything I do on targeting the US and Canada. Lyric Kinard (09:46.222) You Lyric Kinard (09:54.926) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (09:59.375) Fantastic. Anne (10:08.309) And the reason why is because I realized, okay, I want to do colorwork knitting and colorwork knitting has this reputation of being Norwegian knitting out there to a certain extent. It's also Fair Isle and for those who know, it's knitting a bit, but Norwegian knitting is a bit different and it's kind of like a way of differentiating yourself by not doing knitting, but niching down and then decide, okay, it's going to be from now on because I used to do all kinds of stuff. Now it's going to be colorwork knitting. and that's it. And we're gonna focus on that. Our king, we have a king in Norway, you know, and he's a proper king. He's a good person. And he's like, he had this talk, and he went to Minnesota at some point when I was in my teens, and he had this I saw an excerpt from his talk that he had to some American Norwegians, you know, with Norwegian heritage. And I remember him saying that there are more Americans and Canadians with Norwegian heritage than there are Norwegians in Norway. Lyric Kinard (11:31.871) Interesting. Anne (11:32.013) And there are. Today there are approximately the same, but it's kind of like, yeah, but there are. There more than five million people in the US that have Norwegian heritage. Lyric Kinard (11:44.43) we have a lot more geographic room to let people spread out. Anne (11:49.245) Exactly. the big majority of them are in Minnesota. But anyway, so what happened that stuck with me. So when I started, you know, thinking about all this, I thought, OK, the North American continent and I'm gonna I'm gonna use it for everything that is worth the Norwegian heritage thing. You know, because I'm proud of my country, you know, I'm Lyric Kinard (11:52.974) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (12:17.582) Absolutely. Anne (12:18.571) I'm a global person and I like to travel. I enjoy meeting new cultures and all that and I soak it in. I'm really, really interested in it. But at the same time, I'm really proud of being a Norwegian. And I know that the Americans and Canadians with Norwegian heritage, to a large degree, are kind of looking for their roots, right? So I thought, OK, there is a market there. Let's see if we can hit that. Lyric Kinard (12:38.735) that they want to connect with us. Lyric Kinard (12:44.953) So this is really a really key point as well for any business owner in our industry. I know all of us want to reach everybody. We want to have all the students. We want to bring our thing that we love so much to as many people as possible. But the opposite of that needs to happen in order to gain a big audience. You have to niche down. Anne (12:56.333) Thank Lyric Kinard (13:12.947) so specifically as tightly and as small as you can to find the people who you can really, truly authentically connect with. And your marketing will find those people if you speak to those people. If you try to speak to everybody, you're just, you're boring, right? You don't have a connection. Anne (13:24.109) Mm. Anne (13:33.453) You're speaking to no one, right? No, exactly. And I think that was what it was a bit scary because I understood that, OK, when I because I when I did this, I did an American business course at the time and had some really good coaches and they guided me and they kept pushing me. You need to niche down, niche down, niche down. And then it's during that process that I came to the Norwegian knitting thing. And I was like, because I have always felt, and this also I think is really important for every, the, you know, the people out there listening to this and have the same, you know, of our kind, same soft, what do you call them? soft, soft, yeah. English is not my native language. It tends to stop off now and then. So if you feel that my vocabulary is a bit too short, that's why. Yeah, thank you. But anyway. Lyric Kinard (14:03.321) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (14:19.801) Soft crafts. Lyric Kinard (14:29.325) You're just fine. Anne (14:32.981) And I was afraid that because they said and you need to niche down, you need to go really close and you need to find what is your thing. And I kept saying, but all I do is knit. And they say, no, Anne, that's not all you do. You knit and you design beautiful garments that are rooted in the Norwegian tradition. And the people that you are looking for are, you know, they love that. And that's what they will be, you know. fascinated by that and that's the way that you are going to draw the people into your world and if they like you and they like your stuff they're gonna stick, right? So in the beginning I was really really scared and I felt that this is not gonna work this is too tight it's too narrow and it's too specific but what has happened is that and it was It is really specific and Norwegian knitting, right? It's really niche down. It's like you can't get it much more. I could have concentrated about on kids, for example, you know, but I don't. It's predominantly women, though, but design, but that's it. But anyway, but what has happened is that when I found because through this process. Lyric Kinard (15:41.827) Mm-hmm. Anne (15:50.041) And this process is still going, obviously, because I just did the real reorganization, organizing of my business. But this business of mine started at that really narrow small point, but it has developed so much during the course of the years because I found my footing. In the beginning, I was sitting there thinking that all I do is knit. Now I get emails. Lyric Kinard (16:17.283) Mm-hmm. Anne (16:19.137) from people telling me that they changed their lives, know, that I saved their lives even. And it's like, it gives me the chills, you know, I had one, actually I had one the evening after we talked last week, there was an email coming in. I was like, I was sitting here crying because of it. And then I remember those coaches, every time that happens, I remember those coaches from my first business course saying that, you are changed because everyone is like, you know, people in the online world, we are all in there. I mean, you see all this stuff about, you know, go from no money to lots of money in zero time, you know, go from being, you know, health wise, going from not having health to, you know, prosper. And I feel that everyone I felt that everyone had so much more to to give. Lyric Kinard (17:17.731) Right. We're just, I'm just knitting a sweater. How can that change somebody's life, right? Anne (17:20.813) Yeah, exactly. And I remember one of the coaches and he was a man and he was like, Anne, you have to start thinking differently about this because you are going to change lives. The passion you have, you know, the stuff that you make. As I said, I'm not a knitter and I knew he wasn't a knitter and I don't wear knitwear because I live in too warm a climate. you know, you have to. exactly. You have to think. Lyric Kinard (17:48.355) dear. Anne (17:49.045) differently about this because you will with your determination and passion you will change lives and Lyric Kinard (17:56.504) Let's get into why and how. What is it about what you offer that's a knitting course, right? At its simplest level, you just teach people how to knit a Norwegian sweater, but that's so surface level. How is your business organized? What is it that turns it from, I'm just learning how to knit a sweater to you changed my life. Anne (18:13.131) Wow. Anne (18:23.533) Yeah, exactly. I think that's one of the things that is really giving a good picture is that I've been looking for a new way to offer this because I find I've been struggling trying to find the right words to get people to understand because people don't really fully understand what they get getting themselves into until they actually get inside and then they don't leave, you know, I can't get rid of them. So not that I want to because I don't. Lyric Kinard (18:49.135) I have the exact same thing. It's such a different thing to have people in your ecosystem, in your community where you can affect them. And that's different to trying to explain what it is to people who haven't experienced it yet. Marketing is hard. Anne (19:10.541) It's really hard and I've been struggling really hard to find a way to find my messaging and how to communicate all this. Having said that, I found fairly quickly, I think it's almost three years since now, that I decided that I wanted to centre everything around my... define some pillars. Everything that I do is it's obviously knitting, right? But I also, what I do is that I sprinkle it, or you know, actually more than sprinkle, but let's call it sprinkle, with Norwegian culture and history to it, because I believe that my craft is actually rooted in Norwegian history and crafting. I use, I'm really, really focused on the fact that Lyric Kinard (19:52.303) Mm-hmm. Anne (20:06.889) knitting can be a lifesaver health-wise and I've used that myself because I used my knitting to get out of it, right? So the mental aspect of it is really important and also I've learned so much about that since I started this journey online and took courses myself on how to... value the people and make sure that the people in your world, you know, that they also value themselves. So everything that I've learned, you know, when my coaches told me that I'm need to, you know, start looking at myself as a, you know, much more than I actually do, I'm doing the same to my knitters. I'm using the same kind of wording, the same philosophies. So the Lyric Kinard (20:45.967) you Anne (20:49.301) mental aspect of it is really important. And also I have a really strong focus on the sustainability because I feel that we owe it to Mother Earth to start thinking and be a bit serious about how we treat it. I have some really strong, I'm not going to go into some really strong opinions on synthetic materials and stuff. And I am a big advocate for using, know, taking care of nature and that stuff. And then it's the community. Lyric Kinard (21:07.055) Right. Lyric Kinard (21:15.779) Right, right. So what your business does, I mean, you have, I mean, they're courses, but when we talked earlier, you talked about what you're doing is creating a community that has an experience together. Anne (21:31.117) And that's the thing, because all this has moved into so many courses. And then I launched a high-end program and that was really good, but still there's been so much because the community is a really strong passion of mine that I wanted to be a community, a true community. So then I launched, I've been talking about, I have this high-end program that I called the Great Norwegian Knitting Magic Experience. Lyric Kinard (21:37.081) Mm-hmm. Anne (21:58.765) I'm a translator, I'm a word nerd. And I'm not a teacher. So yeah, so I love my words. So people are like, but that's a mouthful. We ended up calling it the great experience. I have another project which has, I think I've had close to 1500 people doing that program. It's a shawl, which I call the eternal shawl experience because that's also an experience. Lyric Kinard (22:01.007) Love it. Lyric Kinard (22:26.883) Mm-hmm. Anne (22:28.557) But then I found that, because that's what I see, I see my stuff as I just don't want my patterns to be, to drop them out there and then leave them. I want to make sure that people enjoy them in a way. And it has ended up with so many things. So this summer, what we did in August was that we launched a new structure and we are now doing three different journeys. That's what I'm offering. Everything that I have is put into one of those journeys. Yeah, so you have the mountain journey, which is the lower level. That's and I'm a mountain person. I come from Norway, you know, I love my mountains. I can't live without them. So I have this mountain journey. I take you on the journey up to the mountains to give you the overview. That's the lowest level. Then we have the middle level and maybe not all of you know it, but Lyric Kinard (23:19.065) Mm-hmm. Anne (23:25.173) Norway is known for its fjords on the west coast. Long deep fjords. And at the middle level where you go into the fjords and then we go deep and stuff. And then you have the ultimate, what used to be the great experience is now the greatest. As one of my people say, one of my members say, it's not a great experience, it's the greatest experience. now, yeah, it is. Lyric Kinard (23:28.281) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (23:37.487) OK. Lyric Kinard (23:51.631) sweet. Anne (23:54.837) And now, Anne, you've also renamed it to the Northern Lights Journey, which is the greatest experience of them all. I kind of love you, sweetie. So that's what... Lyric Kinard (24:03.641) Perfect. Lyric Kinard (24:07.375) You know, just this description of the journey, I purposefully has not learned to knit because I have way too many things I already do. And because I love yarn so much that I would have to get a whole new studio to hold it, right? So I purposefully had that. But I want to do it so bad now, just because of the way you're talking about this. You know, the picture of the... Anne (24:20.587) Mm-hmm. Anne (24:30.013) I love that. Thank you. Lyric Kinard (24:35.811) broad view from the mountaintop where you can see from above all the possibilities. But then going, if any of you have ever been to any fjords, I've only been to the fjords in New Zealand to Malford Sound and they were spectacular. Deep, deep water and huge mountains all around you straight up out of the water. So this idea of diving deeply, which feels to me like, Anne (24:49.389) But they are. Yeah, and they are where this is. Lyric Kinard (25:04.227) really digging into a technique, really learning, having it in your bones. And then I can't even imagine what the Northern Lights experience is because right now the Northern Lights are very top of my bucket list. The thing I want to do most before I die right now is see the Northern Lights. So this is so exciting to me. So just these simple words that you're using and the way you're Anne (25:07.731) Mm. Mm. Lyric Kinard (25:35.02) audience, your community, the people you serve described it to you. This is a perfect example of listening and reflecting back what they're experiencing in your messaging. So if you take the time and have the opportunity to really work with your people, to listen to them, to talk to them, to ask them questions, to get feedback, that's the communication, that's the marketing, that's actually makes marketing easy, doesn't it? That's how you reach your people. You use their own words. Anne (26:11.053) which is absolutely brilliant and I've also come to a place where because during the launch that they had now in August what happened was that because I have a couple of people working I don't like to say working for me they actually work with me yeah especially one of them she's really with me yes I am the boss she keeps saying Lyric Kinard (26:26.488) You Anne (26:34.143) and makes the final decision, but she has such a lot of stuff that she brings to the table. So it's like, it's amazing to have her in my team. But anyway, during this launch, what we got, because this is the first time during a big launch like this, that she's been in my team. So what we decided was that we were going to do, even though it was the first time we launched this journey, we had people in our community that we could ask, can you talk about... Because they already done the products that are in there, right? So they kind of... We said, would you be willing to be on a panel with us and do live broadcasts to YouTube? We have five people on the panel. I'm there, but Steph, my person, is actually hosting it. She's the one that actually keeps, you know, holds the... Lyric Kinard (27:16.505) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (27:28.719) She's running the tech. Anne (27:29.997) Yes, yeah, not yeah, not only now she's actually running the conversation. She's you know, she was Yes, because what happened and this was magical and we didn't I didn't I Didn't expect this and I didn't see this coming but you know, I saw it we had three of them one for each of the journeys and the first one it was like Lyric Kinard (27:35.733) fantastic. Anne (27:52.523) What I said to Steph was that, you be the host? I'm there. I'm going to come up with support questions and acknowledge things and do that. But can you, sorry, but can you be the one that drives the conversation? Because that takes me kind of out of the equation. And I'm wondering if that might not be a good idea. You know, that could be a good idea. Let's check, test this. What happened when I did that is that that panel... become so not salesy. Yeah, because I wasn't the one driving the questions, you know, I wasn't the one that are leading. I was just supporting because I had a lot to say. I can't and you all got this by now. I talk a lot. I am passionate about this. But it's so I have a lot to say. And so I did talk, but I was not the one holding the, you know, the whatever you call it on the horse. She was the one that that. kept all the threads together and said yes and no and no and yes and all that and asked the questions. And the result was even though we didn't sell one thing on that call, I didn't sell anything on that call on purpose because I didn't want to because we had a big free event coming up. This was the intro to that event. So I didn't do that on purpose. But in spite of that, I had 5k of sales that evening. Anne (29:26.313) into that lower end program because this was from the mountain program and that is like I had five, that is like 10, 15 people signing up in that evening without me even dropping a link and that has never happened before. Lyric Kinard (29:41.849) Right. Lyric Kinard (29:46.564) Right? Well, what happens is you've taken yourself. It's the journey isn't about you anymore. You've centered the customer. You've centered the people you're serving. They're sharing their quest, their pain, their process, their entire journey. And that allows other people who aren't in your system yet to see themselves there. They can't see themselves as the teacher because they don't. Anne (29:55.938) Mm-hmm. Anne (30:04.909) Hmm. Anne (30:08.929) Mm. Lyric Kinard (30:18.829) understand how to do any of it yet. centering, mean, this literally put your customers, the people you serve, as the main story. Anne (30:32.14) Exactly. And the way that drew people in surprised me. Well, I had a suspicion that it would happen, but I didn't have that such a strong suspicion because it resulted in I actually had 30 new people to my high end programs coming in in August and they are from 1200 to 2k. And that and 30. That's a lot of people in my world. That's more than expected. Lyric Kinard (30:58.991) Mm-hmm. That is so fantastic. That is so fantastic. I'm having all these ideas. My master class people, I'm going to be calling you. We're going to have a panel. This is going to be amazing. I can't wait to hear all the things that you share. Anne (31:10.263) Yeah. Brilliant, I'm happy to know because I love and that was a huge success because by getting as you said by having someone else telling what is all about then all people see themselves in those talking about and it's like that could be me Lyric Kinard (31:26.713) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (31:34.032) Right? It's beautiful. Beautiful. I love hearing that things are growing and I know it hasn't been easy and it hasn't been quick and it has not been overnight. You started this well 2019 you said and it's 2025 now. So that's that's a lot of years of working and trying to figure it out and growing and changing as you go. What at this end of the journey, and we all have, there's no end to the journey, right? Just from the vantage point of where we are looking back, what would be one or two things that you would advise your early self as you were beginning? One thing that's a practical bit of advice and one thing that's something about your heart, something about the way you think about looking forward as you try to build a business. If you could tell your previous beginning self something. Anne (32:46.541) The big, one of the biggest thing is what I've already touched on and that is, you know, that belief in yourself thing that everyone tells you. And I know it sounds so cliche, but it's like, I stand so strongly in my shoes today. I know exactly what I'm doing and where I'm going. And I, someone said to me, you know, you're worth it. And I just looked at her and I said, I know. And she started laughing and it's like, And then I laughed, I know her so I could say it. then, then she said, oh, that's so you, Anne. Yes, it is, but I do know I'm worth it. But I didn't know that at the beginning. if I, yeah. Lyric Kinard (33:22.639) Thank you. Lyric Kinard (33:28.847) Mm-hmm. You have to jump into that belief in order to make it a reality, right? It's kind of a circular spiral thing. Anne (33:40.203) Yeah, and I wish I had embraced that a bit more, a bit earlier if possible. You know, it's like, I don't know if it's possible to, would have been possible for me to do it earlier. But what I see is there was a, there are a couple of, can, I can go back and there are a couple of turning points, pivotal points where I feel like, you know, that self-confidence. I never lacked self-confidence, but going into this, it was like, well, that's a lie. I do lack, I have lacked self-confidence. Lyric Kinard (33:45.807) Okay. Lyric Kinard (34:09.263) You Anne (34:10.849) But it's like, but this I felt really so insecure and also just trusting. I keep telling my students trust the process. Yeah. And I must admit I haven't trusted the process all the time. I am now I'm much more into it. Exactly again. Right. But that embracing that you can do this thing a bit more strongly a bit earlier, I think would have been Lyric Kinard (34:26.703) Yeah, it takes practice. Anne (34:41.993) because and acknowledging that my passion because I've seen that my passion has been there all the time it's going to take me where I want to go you know at an earlier stage I think that's one yeah Lyric Kinard (34:55.533) And what I think I'm seeing is that your passion, of course it's the knitting, but that's not where the center of it is. That's not where the heart of it is. It's the way that what you teach changes the people. It's what you bring for the people you serve that is your passion and your strength and. and the worth of it, right? It's not, I'm the best Norwegian knitter. There's probably lots of people better, right? Right? But you, you can lift and serve the people who come to you with this tool. It's not about the tool itself. It's not about the skill itself. It's about everything around it that you provide that lifts them. Anne (35:42.013) Mm. Mm. Mm. Anne (35:52.365) And seeing that is a process and it takes time before you actually see that you're able to do that. And I wish I hadn't because this is back to those early coaches. They were like... Lyric Kinard (36:00.56) Mm-hmm. Anne (36:10.773) The way they pushed me, I mentally... Lyric Kinard (36:13.007) It's painful sometimes, isn't it? Anne (36:17.077) Gosh, it's so painful. It really is. Yeah, it really is. It really is. But another thing that they did, which, and that is more on the practical side, you know, the business doing thing. My biggest pivot on my biggest leap, quantum leap this far, I've had a few, but the biggest one was from day one. I'm, you know, knitting is a low cost market. Lyric Kinard (36:45.903) Mm-hmm. Anne (36:46.603) leashes kind of because there's so many and the reason for that unfortunately is the yarn shops because they yarn producers because they not the shops the yarn producers because they want their yarn to be sold, bought. They have someone designing beautiful patterns and then they give those patterns away for free. Yeah that has been a trend that has exploded but it's going a bit back again but and that was that was really what killed me in Norway because all of a sudden all the patterns were free and then it's like Lyric Kinard (37:16.111) All right. Well, that's also providing a thing instead of an experience. Anne (37:16.183) See you. Anne (37:22.769) Exactly, exactly. So I decided really quickly that I didn't want to do the pattern. I have to design. If I don't get to design, I'm probably going to die. I need to express myself. But I decided that I don't want to go down that pattern road. I decided I wanted to do it differently, right? To do something, to think out of the box, to go from there. Lyric Kinard (37:34.895) Understood. Anne (37:51.541) I remember, I think I mentioned it to you, but I remember when I was in the corporate world, we got this book from, I was in an American company, a global American company, and we got this book from headquarters that everyone in the marketing and the sales department had to read. And it was called the Blue Oceans Strategies. And the basic idea was that instead of, we were in a highly competitive business, and instead of doing, going out into the Red Ocean where everyone was competing and the Red Ocean was, you know, where blood was spilled, right? Yeah, all the sharks, right? And then instead of doing that, we were encouraged to find where there are blue oceans, where is the blue ocean where the sharks haven't found? And we were challenged to find that in order to create new markets for ourselves, right? Lyric Kinard (38:28.706) All sharks. Anne (38:48.725) And I remember that when I had this so in my brain when I was challenged by these coaches of mine. was remembering that book and I was thinking, okay, what's Blue Ocean? What's Blue Ocean? Couldn't see it, obviously. And they told me, Annem you have to do a 2K program. And I looked at them and I said, there is no way that I'm going to be able to offer a 2K program. Well, I can offer a 2K program, but no one is going to buy it. Lyric Kinard (39:18.297) They're knitters for heaven's sakes. Anne (39:20.461) Exactly. And it took me almost 18 months before I actually gave in. And then I said, and I said it a bit in spite, but also because some of my mid-years had come to me and said, hey, Anne, we want more. And I said, what do you want? Don't know, but we want more. And I was like, OK, you've been buying everything from me for two years now. I you know, I don't know what you want, but OK. And I was pushed again. this was in the summer and the autumn. I was pushed again. And I was like, Lyric Kinard (39:44.079) I'm gonna film. Anne (39:49.703) bit out of spite, said okay what the we're doing it I'm gonna do the 2k I never looked back since then because that's where the money started rolling. Lyric Kinard (40:04.301) Yeah, it's the universe providing the flow for what you're offering. Anne (40:06.169) And I say money, because the money is my state, but that's when the universe that I have now with my journeys actually took off. That's the pivotal point where things really fell into place. And I wish I had done that earlier. Lyric Kinard (40:22.511) All right. And that's, yeah, that's kind of terrifying, isn't it? I think we all in this craft and art world, you know, we're just like, I'm just teaching people to cut up fabric and sew it back together. That's not a $2,000 thing. But then exactly what you did, learning that, no, that isn't a $2,000 thing. Anne (40:27.468) Yes. Lyric Kinard (40:53.561) but everything else that's provided around it. So what are, let's, we only have a few minutes left, but what are some of the things, I mean, you have courses, you teach them to knit. What are the things that you actually do inside of these journeys that provide all that value? Anne (41:13.953) what you would not do, right? Well, it depends awfully about, you know, on what journey you are on, because what we do is that if you're in the mountain, you're in the mountain. If you're in a journey, you also get the mountain. If you're in the Northern light, you also get the mountain and the fjord, right? So now we do teach, obviously, we have models that we teach. Lyric Kinard (41:15.855) You do all the things. Lyric Kinard (41:29.507) Right. Anne (41:38.549) We have different levels on the knitting courses. We have from zero to three, so we teach those at different times of the year. We have weekly meetups. Yeah, during the live teaching, we do meet twice a week because we have teaching day and we have Q &A day, live on Zoom. Record it, people who can't join, watch it in replay, and then they can ask questions in writing and we answer them. Lyric Kinard (41:50.639) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (41:56.729) Mm-hmm. Anne (42:03.703) We have a community section which is really popular and they use it a lot. It's taking time but it's just taken off completely this autumn. We meet once a month just to chat and knit in the different levels. The highest level meet every Saturday without us. They meet on Zoom and sit and knit and chat. That has become really popular. There's, you know, and I pop in now and then I popped in on Saturday and I couldn't get out because I just wanted to say hi. Lyric Kinard (42:16.289) Mm-hmm. Right. Anne (42:33.185) But you Lyric Kinard (42:33.519) But they're your people. Anne (42:37.921) Yeah, exactly. We have internal events. We're now starting up a pre-holiday. It used to be a pre-Christmas because I'm a Christmas person, but there are so many people that don't celebrate Christmas. So now it's a pre-holiday. We're going to have a make-along this autumn. Yeah, it is fun. And there's always something happening, you know, and right now we also actually do, but that is outside of the journey, but it's an add-on really. We are inviting to a virtual retreat in... end of February in 2026. Lyric Kinard (43:11.503) Tell us how your virtual retreat works. Anne (43:14.669) It's just like the courses. It's an immersive experience. We start on Thursday and we end on Sunday and we have six to seven hours every day with yoga, breaks, chat and nits, external speakers, replays for those who need that. They get a good bag with yarns. The lineup this year is going to be awesome. Yes, it's via Zoom. Lyric Kinard (43:18.671) It's just squished into a short amount of time. Lyric Kinard (43:38.486) wow, it's all via Zoom. Anne (43:44.715) Yes, depends a bit this year. If the numbers are big enough, we will have to have some external people running it for us because, yeah, we managed last year, but I'm not quite sure if we will manage this year. We'll have to see. Lyric Kinard (43:45.071) All right. Lyric Kinard (43:56.121) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Anne (44:04.117) And on top of that, we are actually, which is really cool, we are doing next summer, we are doing a live retreat in Norway. But we are offering it to the highest, the Northern Lights people first. we already have... Yes. Yes, and that's going to be... We're going to be traveling and see the sites, go to yarn, spin arrays, see historical sites, go to my town, go to my mountains. Yes, it is. Lyric Kinard (44:16.44) so in person instead of just live via Zoom. wow. Lyric Kinard (44:29.935) That sounds amazing. Anne (44:32.759) So we've got 15 seats and we have 10 seats booked already. And we launched it last week. Lyric Kinard (44:38.383) Bye! Lyric Kinard (44:42.273) amazing. I am so happy for you. So the things that you're doing are beautiful. And it's that providing of community, both with you, but your students with each other and the way that you serve them that has come back around to your success. And it's taken, you know, I Anne (44:43.341) and Lyric Kinard (45:11.659) I see this taken struggle, it's taken work, it's taken, you I think you got there faster. A lot of people take forever. And part of that is you had coaches that were pushing you much farther than you would have pushed yourself. So. Yeah. Anne (45:28.749) Totally, absolutely. And also, I remember Barry, one of my coaches, he said, and you have an inner drive that, you know, it's strong. Yeah. Lyric Kinard (45:41.857) Yeah, well, a lot of entrepreneurs do. That's why we're doing this, right? It feeds our souls to be creating something from us instead of channeling something from somebody else. Anne (45:53.581) But you're so right, it's you know, getting here has been... It's not been a bed of roses all the way, all the way. It's been, well, it's been rough. My mom paid my flat rent. For yes. Lyric Kinard (46:06.639) Of course not. Lyric Kinard (46:13.775) That's the it's so something it is really hard. It is really hard and to have that kind of support sometimes is the only thing that gets you through. Well, Anna, thank you so, so much for the wisdom that you've shared and for your vulnerability and for all of the all of the really interesting insights into how you run your business and how you've made it a success. Anne (46:45.357) Thank you so much for having me. Lyric Kinard (46:47.201) Yeah, I appreciate it. Before we go, let's do a fun thing. I love to ask my guests because we're creatives here. What is the last thing you made? Anne (46:49.749) Yeah. Anne (46:59.469) The last thing I finished was actually this one. Lyric Kinard (47:07.115) okay, hold it up to the camera. Lyric Kinard (47:14.027) it's a finger, fingerless glove. It's gray, dark gray toward the elbow, light gray toward the fingers. And it has a beautiful field of flowers and trees. That is intricate. Anne (47:20.086) It's for the retreat? Anne (47:27.597) Yes, it is. And this is for the retreat, so everyone in the retreat will get a yarn for this. I'm working on this one, which is going to be a cardigan with some, you know, embroideries on it and stuff. that's this is a test. I needed to test some stuff. So this is a test. Lyric Kinard (47:40.175) that's amazing. Lyric Kinard (47:45.965) Yeah, so it's the same. Her tests look like a masterpiece to me. It's the same kind of idea with dark gray at the bottom and a light gray background, but beautiful, intricate, floral. It looks like you're laying in a field in a meadow looking through all the beautiful flowers. That's gorgeous. Thank you for sharing. Anne (48:10.713) I'm really happy with this one. But since you're asking, this is the project that I'm working on right now. It's gonna be a sweater. It's for my... Yeah, and it's for me this one. this one is... This is so funny because this is for the people that have been in my 2K program for three years. Yeah, they're getting this now. Because they are there for the third year, so they need something extra. Lyric Kinard (48:19.681) another beautiful pattern. Lyric Kinard (48:30.692) Mm-hmm. sweet. Lyric Kinard (48:39.339) Nice, nice, nice. And they pay every year, don't they? You don't do a permanent access, do you? Anne (48:40.322) Yeah. Anne (48:46.015) No, I don't. They get a permanent access to the programs, the courses. But to stay in the community, they pay every year. It's a lower price, year two and three. And the first year is the highest price. But they pay to stay. That's what they're doing. In the community. That's what the community is paid for. Lyric Kinard (48:52.559) Right. Lyric Kinard (49:03.471) I like it. That's great. Lyric Kinard (49:10.498) I love it. Anna, where can people find you? Anne (49:17.421) ansnaweedian knitting.com Lyric Kinard (49:21.559) All right. And we will have links in the show notes and in the description here for all of Ana's website, for her retreat, for her journeys, and I'll find a link to the Blue Oceans book. That sounds interesting. It'll be great. Thanks again for your time and your generosity and for sharing. Anne (49:22.646) That's... Lyric Kinard (49:50.285) with our audience. It's been lovely to talk with you Anna. Anne (49:54.453) likewise and thank you so much for having me. Lyric Kinard (49:57.184) All right, take care, friends.