Creating a Safe Online Community for Artists

Lyric Kinard (00:01.582) Hello, friend. It is so good to be able to have this conversation with you. Maddie, why don't you introduce yourself to us? Tell us a little bit about who you are and your business. Maddie Kertay (00:14.748) I am Maddie Kertay. I am the founder of the Badass Quilter Society. And I am here representing and bringing together all progressive slash liberal slash leftist quilters and crafts people because we've really grown to being more than just quilters at a time where it can be kind of more difficult to be out there in this landscape. and people are looking for connection. And so I facilitate that connection. Lyric Kinard (00:47.734) You have some wonderful stuff. Your Instagram is just wonderful and huge. The things you post there are fierce and loving. And then you have online shop, right? Maddie Kertay (01:02.74) Mm-hmm. I do. have my online shop and I have my patreon and So I've kind of like that's kind of like the little circle of the world right now as far as online goes and plus We're getting ready to be at a large national convention as well. So that's exciting Lyric Kinard (01:21.122) All right, that's awesome. And so your shop, sell stickers and patches and postcards and wonderful things. Maddie Kertay (01:22.717) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (01:28.436) We do. fact, some of them are, there's a lot of it sitting right behind me back here. yeah, lots of stickers, thousands of stickers every month, t-shirts, and our biggest new thing is patches. We've dived very deeply down the patch hole this year. And that has been very exciting and it's brought a whole other group of skills into my asset of, like, because I really had designing stickers down. and the ordering process and how long it took and stuff like that. And so then I'm learning this whole new thing. So when I introduced them to Communion, I said, this is gonna be bumpy people. And it has been bumpy, but that's okay. And they're very accepting of that. Lyric Kinard (01:57.422) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (02:05.741) you Lyric Kinard (02:09.703) Now this is an actual community. It is a group that people can join and you use Patreon. I was on there yesterday looking at all your membership levels. Just tell me a little bit, when did you start that and why and how does it work for you? Maddie Kertay (02:12.457) Yes. Yes, I do. Maddie Kertay (02:22.004) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (02:27.742) So we're into our second year now over on Patreon. And honestly Patreon started as a way that it was really easy. I was doing stickers and people were like, I just wish I could get these automatically to my email box, my snail mailbox every month. And I was like, you look at a lot of different platforms, a lot of different ways to do fulfillment and stuff like that. And it's pretty boggling trying to decide it. And so I tripped on Patreon because I was actually following somebody else on Patreon and they started having Lyric Kinard (02:40.992) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (02:56.302) monthly kind of reward sort of thing and I was like hmm and so I started over there and then As just a way to deliver the stickers and then it's become so much more it's become because it is a membership site people do have to pay to be part of it there is a free level but to get the majority of the content they do have to pay but what that gives me is a a barrier So of safety for people where they can speak honestly and truthfully and express their sadness and their joy But not have to worry about you know Honestly the weirdos of Instagram or the hate that can come to you on a public forum So that's just not gonna happen over there because I'm in charge of the algorithm over there And so you also see everything so it's worked out really well has has it had its bumps. Yeah Lyric Kinard (03:50.347) as every business does. Maddie Kertay (03:50.453) But as they do, and I just always go into it and say, we're gonna try this. We're gonna try this and I'm really open to say there's lots of things that could go wrong. Things are gonna get bumpy. If you wanna hold on for the ride, I would love to have you as part of it. And then we dive in and we learn together. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (04:08.558) All right, so inside Patreon, they're seeing a discussion feed, a community, and then also the platform is able to subscribe people at different monthly levels. I love that you have like free and then like three or four different levels and all of them deliver a different category of, know, added bonuses for each one. Maddie Kertay (04:27.294) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (04:32.884) They do and we started with, honestly I didn't actually have a free level for the whole first year and the free level actually turned out it was actually an accident because I'd really come into it saying, you know, I'm investing my time, my money, my heart, in everything and it has to pay me because I think that we're really bad in this industry and honestly most especially as women about undervaluing our time. And I just wasn't going to do that. And so I didn't have a free level. I am. I'm in the... It's funny though, because I probably do less quilting than a whole lot of people, because I love lots of different creative stuff. I am doing... I do like a large yearly quilt. I'm doing this year's Bone of My Bone quilt, which is an original Outlander quilt that I'm designing. And I'm giving the templates each month to my members to do with as they wish. And so we're working through that. But... Lyric Kinard (05:02.122) And you're in the quilt world, right? Yeah. Lyric Kinard (05:20.814) Hmm. Maddie Kertay (05:29.556) I share all kinds of stuff on the Patreon because it is a safe place. It's a safe place when there's ferocious news that is so scary or so upsetting or so angering. It's a place where I can talk freely and I talk directly to those who are there. But as far as the free side goes, Patreon, like I said, it's gonna be bumpy, folks. They said... Hey, we're introducing a free side because you didn't, there didn't used to be a free side. And there was a public side, which meant people did not have to give you their email addresses, but there wasn't a free side. And unfortunately, so I was like playing around and it turned out when you click the button, you couldn't unclick the button. And they, didn't mention that part. It was a radio button, you know, on off, on off. Well, this was the only on, it turns out this was an only on button. So I really think of it as a waiting room. Lyric Kinard (06:16.842) no. Lyric Kinard (06:20.803) Yeah. Maddie Kertay (06:26.964) I think of it as a place where people can come, get a feel for what we're all about, and then they can choose to opt in or not to get a mailing or get a freebie. It starts at $3 a month. I mean, you can't even get a coffee for $3 a month. And if they're not up to doing that, that's okay too. But I'm not going to deliver the content to them. And that's just, that's a choice. Lyric Kinard (06:51.256) Right. Well, and this is, it turns out to be a good business decision for almost every business when we're delivering content to have somewhere where people can come into our ecosystem and check it out, see what's going on, see what the flavor is of the thing and see if you like it, right? Before you purchase the whole thing, it's like the lovely little tasting spoons that Maddie Kertay (06:59.316) Absolutely. Maddie Kertay (07:07.933) Yes. Maddie Kertay (07:11.892) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (07:15.398) Absolutely. Lyric Kinard (07:20.448) ice cream places. Yeah, and those people are often much more likely to buy in to your content if they've had somewhere to warm up to, right? Maddie Kertay (07:21.939) It is. Maddie Kertay (07:35.455) They are and it's interesting because I really feel like people quote-unquote warm up to me on Instagram because that's mostly where they're gonna find me. I don't think you very rarely, although I think things will change on Patreon over time, you really don't find somebody on Patreon. You find them someplace else and then you move over to them. So I really feel like people kind of understand me or at least kind of get where I'm going from the content that I put on Instagram. Lyric Kinard (07:41.08) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (08:03.59) So it's a double, I find it's actually as a creator, it's a little bit of a double edged sword because I mean my natural inclination is to give a lot. And I have to be really careful not to honestly give too much because then I am honestly giving away my talent for free. And I, you know, there's a thing I do give away for free and that's taking care of neonatal kittens. So I take care of needle natal kittens and this is kitten season. I got like a little my eyes like clicking because it's so tired. because, but so there are things that I do for my community that I mean the bigger world community, they're absolutely free, but yeah, so it's, it's, it's, it's a struggle at times. It really is. Lyric Kinard (08:43.363) Right. Lyric Kinard (08:49.282) Yeah, well, there has to be us reaching out to find new people for our community and that's the public places, that's social media. I'm going big into YouTube this year as a search engine, right? That was the class I was telling you about. We have a YouTube expert coming in who knows how to work the algorithm for our specific community. Maddie Kertay (08:54.194) Yes. Maddie Kertay (09:07.819) huh. Maddie Kertay (09:11.866) that's lovely. Maddie Kertay (09:16.31) that's lovely because it is a vast thing and having somebody who can guide you through a process is invaluable. Lyric Kinard (09:22.184) Mm-hmm. Yeah, I thought I knew a lot. She knows way more. Anyway, you have to find those people, but then you use that outreach to bring them into the first taste. And then those people, they're, I mean, they're with you. They're, they chose you. They had to do something to come into where you are. And that's where you, you warm them up. You give them the little flavors and. Maddie Kertay (09:27.412) There you go. Maddie Kertay (09:35.945) Yes. Maddie Kertay (09:41.48) They did. They do. Lyric Kinard (09:50.755) that's where your most valuable supporters are, right? Most of the people who come to you are not going to be dead cold audiences. Maddie Kertay (09:54.228) They really are. Maddie Kertay (09:59.985) no, yeah, no, there would be never anybody who doing that. I've actually just got through doing an analysis of, because of course you always have attrition in any online platform. You people who come and they're like, they got what they needed or they left or they stay. And mine starts at $3, goes to six, 10, 12 and 20. 20 is a sponsorship level. So that's businesses. Although it's weird because I now have like 10 people in the sponsorship level who just really value what I do so much that they want. Lyric Kinard (10:09.795) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (10:28.904) they want to give me that amount of money every month. They're just patrons. But I think it's very interesting because it shows me like, who leaves every, who leaves each month? What level they were on, that churn and stuff like that. And I think it's very interesting that more people leave from the $3 level than they leave from any other level. Lyric Kinard (10:31.438) They're actual just Patreons, patrons. Lyric Kinard (10:42.082) Yeah, that's true. Lyric Kinard (10:51.822) Well, because the other levels, they've committed, right? Maddie Kertay (10:53.748) They're more vested. have committed. And that's okay too. mean, because the $3 level was interesting because Patreon kind of gives you these suggestions about how much they think, you know. And of course they take their cut of everything. And then of course PayPal takes their cut. mean, so, you know, but unless you have thousands and thousands and thousands of paying subscriptions, you can't do it at a dollar because basically you end up giving it. your time away at a dollar because you end up making like 27 cents. It's after everything. It's kind of crazy. But it was also not the number that I couldn't stop nuisance people from jumping over. For a dollar they were willing to jump over and become problematic. $3 was the level that I say is like it stopped assholes from jumping over. For some reason that was their barrier which I thought was very funny because that's a very low commitment to being a Lyric Kinard (11:22.22) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Maddie Kertay (11:48.149) You know may have been obnoxious that if three dollars stops you from coming and being obnoxious, but three dollar seems to be the level But but yeah, we have we have a couple thousand folks over there in in paying community and So and that's where my heart is is in having conversations with them Lyric Kinard (11:54.646) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Lyric Kinard (12:11.983) Alright, and it's an automated way. Patreon takes, the system takes the lists and I'm assuming it will give you output each month of who gets what level of stuff and your mailing things. Maddie Kertay (12:24.66) Okay. I am. just finished the April mailing and we mailed to about, I think it's 886 people, so I stuff 886 envelopes. It is, and they're segmented just like you were mentioning. So there are people who are getting a single sticker with their letter, because I do a letter that's professionally printed every month. They're beautiful. And then I have a matching sticker that goes with it that's exclusive to community. It's never released to the public. Lyric Kinard (12:38.575) That's a lot of work. Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (12:49.507) Hmm. Maddie Kertay (12:55.292) And then the next group gets two stickers and a mini print. And then now we have a patch level. And so people can also get that month's patch as well. So, but I do have to subdivide all those. So it's a very intense couple days getting it done. Lyric Kinard (12:55.385) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (13:05.103) Peace. Lyric Kinard (13:09.985) Yeah, for sure. And I'm sure it's like, I'm sure Patreon helps you subdivide those. One list, they do this, the next list. Maddie Kertay (13:17.596) They do. yeah, absolutely. Yes, and so I download lists at a time and then print off those labels and on my labels. So because the first time I ever did dividing, I just printed off the labels and I was like, I don't know the difference between these roles of labels. And so now I adjunct the on the last line when I go into the print before the print process starts and I add. Lyric Kinard (13:23.171) Right. Lyric Kinard (13:34.863) Whoops. Maddie Kertay (13:44.765) a single asterisk, two asterisks, three asterisks, whatever, so that when those print off, they all have the coding on them. So if I, it also helps if I have somebody else helping put the labels on, because we have done it wrong before. And I had to go back and remail for every, for one whole level. I know. So there's always bumps, but that's okay. That's, that's the learning process. But that was super helpful for me to adjunct. Lyric Kinard (13:51.225) Mm. Lyric Kinard (13:59.901) Yes. Lyric Kinard (14:04.149) I'm Maddie Kertay (14:11.004) this this coding on to the mailing label so that I could make sure because it was just a careful glance. I mean yes I could look the person up and see what level they were at or whatever but this way it was right there on the label. Yes it is lots of it lots and lots of it. yeah absolutely. Lyric Kinard (14:22.223) That's manual labor. Anything you can automate is, as soon as you can automate everything you can, you build systems and machines so that they can run without you. Maddie Kertay (14:34.93) Yes. Yes, absolutely. Lyric Kinard (14:42.623) You have had an, how long have you had an Instagram feed? How long have you spent building up that audience? Maddie Kertay (14:52.772) So I badass has had two kind of eras it had the first era and then I stopped for two years and During that time I didn't use Instagram. I had an Instagram, but I didn't really use it. I was on Facebook It was the age of Facebook and when I and I had about 30,000 people over on Facebook and I also had a private community at that point and private paid community And then I just, I got really sick of, well I got sick and I also got sick of the industry. And it was just, and so I said goodbye to everybody and I literally pushed the button on Facebook and made the whole site go away. And so for two years I worked on our old house and then I was just sitting at dinner one night and with my husband and I was like, nobody's taking it up. Nobody is out there advocating for more inclusive spaces loudly at least and publicly I couldn't find it and he was like I was wondering how long it was gonna take you to go back and I was like I think I'm gonna go back but I decided I Set ground rules for myself and I decided to come back on Instagram. So The Instagram was like I had less than 300 people on Instagram because I just wasn't really using it. So I came back Instagram Lyric Kinard (16:01.902) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (16:13.616) I tried to switch my name back to the badass quilter the way it normally was they wouldn't let me do it. They had new rules about names and how what they could say and badass was considered foul language. And so I had to adjunct it so it's like the underscore badass underscore quilter so it like puts it together and it fooled the it fooled their like you know their thing. And so I came back and that was about two years ago and now we're at hundred and five thousand. Lyric Kinard (16:49.017) Very, very nice. Maddie Kertay (16:50.418) Yeah, so it's been quite the thing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Lyric Kinard (16:53.679) It is a thing. Do you have a regular posting schedule? Do you have, how do you manage your content creation? Maddie Kertay (17:03.156) I'm a goblin of chaos. Lyric Kinard (17:06.351) Ha ha! Maddie Kertay (17:08.944) Some people are so good and I'm so envious of them, of the people who know like, you know, on, you know, my content is going to come out Wednesday, Thursday, you know, blah, blah, and it comes and I'm like, I just thought this would be fun to share, you know, and so like, absolutely on the fly. Now, are there things that are very specific that I share? Yeah. Like for our sponsors or different stuff like that. But even then, they're like, hey, I got this cool fabric in and they send me a couple pictures and then I Loaded up and share it and or they send me stuff in the mail and they're like and I'm like, that's cool Let's let's share about that. And so it's very lifetime if you know, the only time that it wouldn't specifically be lifetime is if I am someplace else and that's a safety is a factor and Then I'm gonna off time it a little bit like and then there's things that you won't see like my grandchildren don't show up on my feed because my grandchildren are not on social media. And so people know that I'm a grandparent. I have three grandchildren. I have six children and three grandchildren. All my children were grown and they're between ages of 36 and 24. And but you don't see my grandchildren. So if I'm off doing stuff with them there might be other parts of that I show. But yeah I am. I am a goblin of chaos when it comes to I would maybe maybe I would be better off doing it the other way But it just works for me, and I'm now incredibly fast at being able to edit a video Because like I've talked to other people are like I spent four hours editing that that real and it didn't do anything I'm like I have probably never spent more than ten minutes editing a real even a real I Use edits. I use edits on my phone most of time now. There's like if I'm doing a video Lyric Kinard (18:50.177) Where do you edit them? Maddie Kertay (18:57.884) Like that's a step out or something like that That's gonna go up on patreon. I will use cap cut on my desktop And do it because just it's a little easier to see And it's easier to yeah, it's much easier also I can pull the timeline out and then get more precise cuts and stuff like that But honestly content is here and gone on Instagram I mean it it does last longer than it used to and I can tell that because I still from Lyric Kinard (19:05.753) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Lyric Kinard (19:11.152) much easier to see. Lyric Kinard (19:17.284) Right, right. Lyric Kinard (19:21.302) Exactly. Maddie Kertay (19:26.622) posts from months ago. still get comments on posts from months and months and months ago. So I think that there is some longer legs on some posts, but I'm not going to. I'm not looking for a viral post. Because although I do have viral posts and usually there was when I'm talking to the camera and usually I'm pretty pissed off. Lyric Kinard (19:30.595) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (19:50.101) And I'm responding to something that somebody said that was so erroneously wrong or hateful or whatever. So those things go. And then sometimes I've got a group of friends that I hang with and we'll do a post together. Like we just did a post for Trans Day of Visibility and it has like three quarters of a million views right now. It's nice but you know what? Lyric Kinard (20:10.532) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (20:19.122) And I'll always do it because those causes are very close to my heart and close to badass. But I don't necessarily think they're very good for my algorithm because they are not necessarily, yes, they're getting people who are, you know, that I share that part of my life with, but they're not necessarily crafters, quilters, whatever. They are not enriching my bigger sphere of my business. So there are definitely reasons I'm gonna continue doing those because those causes are very close to my heart and it's very important for me that I speak out on them. But I don't think everybody's always in that, know, I need a viral post. I said, what you need is connection. What you need is connection with the person who needs to hear from you right now. And very rarely is that on the viral level. Lyric Kinard (20:56.922) Right. Exactly. Lyric Kinard (21:07.478) Exactly. think we, social media trains people to look at how many likes and how many views. And that's not actually the numbers that count. It's, you able to bring in the people who are your people, the people who need you, who you can truly serve, right? So it's kind of one of the reasons I focus on YouTube instead of. Maddie Kertay (21:14.676) Yeah. Maddie Kertay (21:20.404) Yeah. Maddie Kertay (21:26.312) Yes. Yeah. Maddie Kertay (21:35.134) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (21:36.549) the social media, other social media. But you know, when you make a YouTube video, you turn one video into three shorts and they just, I use a social media management system that just posts them everywhere, right? So it's not extra work. But it's the same, it's the same idea. Are we finding the right people? You know, we want to speak to everybody. And some of those things Maddie Kertay (21:48.372) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (22:06.292) are really, really good, but exactly what you said. The numbers, the giant viral video numbers, they don't actually build your business like you want them to. Maddie Kertay (22:16.23) No. No, they actually really don't. And honestly, even though I mean, it was very exciting to get 10000 followers that I mean, it's exciting. There's no there's nothing to be said about that. I mean, and we're doing like a year long giveaway. I'm giving away a sewing machine every month of twenty twenty six. I know I've been giving away. I've given away I gave one away in January, February, March. So I've given away three sewing machines so far. Lyric Kinard (22:25.753) It is. Maddie Kertay (22:42.004) I'm giving one every month and I'm doing that over my patreon community because I didn't want to attract People who were just there for a sewing machine if I was gonna do it on Instagram I was like, you know what if you really want a chance at the most sewing machine You can make the small time commitment that it takes to come over and be in my community I mean that way but in fact I'm I think I'm looks like I'm gonna be speaking in this fall about it about the downside to a hundred thousand followers Lyric Kinard (22:50.864) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (23:00.688) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (23:12.328) and so that it's you know in some way yeah it's really good in some ways but in other ways it changes how you speak to people and so you don't know who you're speaking to quite as much because if you are which is why i really drill down on my message about who i am and why i am on instagram and Lyric Kinard (23:20.624) Tell me about it. Maddie Kertay (23:35.239) It shows up in almost everything I do. I weave together why I'm doing what I'm doing. because maybe like so right now I've started a series of talking about the different feet for my particular sewing machine and how it extrapolates to other sewing machines as well because not everybody gets the support that they need from their local sewing place or they bought their sewing machine online or they inherited it or whatever but I'm always going to talk about the inequity in the sewing world. and why we don't have support for everybody. And so I'm gonna weave my personal, the drum that I beat, back into all that content so that I get as close to like-minded people as possible. Because honestly, I don't want the other ones there. And they don't probably really want me either. So the importance of, you know, Lyric Kinard (24:15.728) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (24:34.482) And what I say, and it's definitely something not everybody agrees upon, is like, this is a time where if you're not saying who you are and who and what you believe in, I'm gonna give you some side eye. I mean, it's really true, because I don't want to be giving my social capital to people I don't believe in at this point, at this very critical juncture in history. Yeah. Lyric Kinard (24:57.998) Right, we are, for history, we are at the point in the United States where there is, we have concentration camps. We have horrible things where people are being illegally persecuted. But don't even get me started about laws because every person in the Holocaust was killed legally. So if there is a law that is evil, Maddie Kertay (25:09.448) We do. Maddie Kertay (25:15.304) Yes. Maddie Kertay (25:24.541) Yes. Lyric Kinard (25:28.442) There's no way that we should obey it. Maddie Kertay (25:28.626) Yeah, it is. It's very difficult that way. And I want people to know who I am and to be there for that. mean, do they have to like that I want, I like pineapple on my pizza? We can disagree about pineapple on my pizza and think that I should, you know, I mean, that's just the most horrible thing, but we can't disagree about the basic worthiness of being a human. Lyric Kinard (25:33.178) Right. Lyric Kinard (25:51.802) Right. Right. Maddie Kertay (25:53.057) And so I'm happy to those people not to be part of my community. And if that means that I don't ever attain, and it has held me back. It has absolutely held me back in this industry. I mean, if I had kept my lip zipped, there were so many times that I had huge offers to do things. And I was like, and they're like, well, but you have to get rid of that, or you can't say that. And I'm like, so sorry, that's just the way I'm going to be. So that's nice, though, because I know that the people who are with me are all in. Lyric Kinard (26:08.88) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (26:23.584) and that gives me the freedom to speak to them in a way that I would feel constrained or people would try to constrain me in other ways. Lyric Kinard (26:35.28) Right. And this applies to any business purpose who is making, who are making videos or any kind of content for public consumption. If you know who your people are, you know who you are and you know how you serve them and you keep your content really tight, you find your people and Maddie Kertay (26:47.518) Mm-hmm. Yes. Lyric Kinard (27:05.036) It aligns with who you are and your values as a person and your business centers around something that you can really believe in. And it's just also really smart strategy for social media. I don't care what it is you're doing or showing or pitching, but, you know, keeping that, keeping every little piece of content you make tight, you know, who is this for? How am I serving them? let me do this one point. Those are effective videos instead of trying to mellow out your message and talk to every kind of person. And this is outside of politics. is just whatever you do. When I bring in people who are new to teaching, often it's like, but I want to help these people and these people and these people. I'm like, eventually you will, but you won't reach any of them. Maddie Kertay (27:40.898) yeah. Mm-hmm. yeah. Lyric Kinard (28:02.541) unless you choose, know, niching down is really, really hard for people, but it's the way you find your people. Maddie Kertay (28:08.404) Mm-hmm and I know It is the way you find your people. I mean for me Nicheing down is so I really think of mine as an umbrella and so I have this overarching philosophy and then I have all these other things that fit in underneath it because I am a well-rounded person and I mean and I talk about a lot of those things and for me because my umbrella is So encompassing because you know how so it's funny When I was a kid, I had one of those umbrellas that came all the way down that was clear that you could like walk under and you could see out. And I thought I was hot shit. I just, I loved that umbrella. And so you can have a broad umbrella and, but mine is like more encompassing and I have all these things underneath it and nothing gets out from that thing that isn't touched in some way by my overarching philosophy. Lyric Kinard (28:43.6) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (29:07.288) of my belief in humanity and my leftist beliefs in how we need to move forward in humanity and my belief in matriarchy and all of those things and my, you know, being, you know, part of the, as my friend says, being part of the LGBTQIA mafia. I mean, you know, cause I mean, and I've never made any beef about it. I mean, I've told people like, you know, I'm like, I'm bisexual. So I, you know, I put that out there. And it's amazing like and but then I'm a mom who's lost a child one of our child children died I mean there's a lot of things that I talk about that people don't talk about necessarily because whether it's social taboos or Fear or whatever, but I am so amazed with the number of direct messages I get after you know Because even though it's not new news that I mention it, because like, you know, on like a buyer racer day, you know, I made a video or something like that, or on child loss day or any other thing that happens to be out there. I'm just amazed at the amount of people who reach out to me and say, me too, me too, me too. I mean, and like to the thing like, like nobody knows I've lost. mean, people say nobody knows that I used to have another child or nobody knows. mean, and I just get some of the most heartfelt letters. And those mean so much to me because that means that somebody who is feeling alone feels less alone. Lyric Kinard (30:30.618) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (30:37.367) Exactly. I've had the same exact experience. know, some people might look at you and like you're oversharing side eye and I'm like, no, I am fine. I share what I choose to share and I lose some people. And then the people who needed that, they're the people I really needed to support. They're the people who Maddie Kertay (30:43.518) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (31:01.534) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (31:05.139) absolutely. Lyric Kinard (31:06.457) we needed to be in community with. So, I mean, even this podcast, I'm sure there will be people who are like, my gosh, Lyric, I had no idea. And I'm like, how did you have no idea? I mean, right? Maddie Kertay (31:08.926) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (31:14.93) Yep. Yeah. Well, it's like am I not doing a good enough job at this? mean and that was really one of the reasons I when I stopped the other version of badass is because I spent so much time saying it but or trying to like be softer maybe in saying it or and then what so when I came back I just there was like a line in the sand and my two lines in the sand where it's like nobody will have any doubt about where I sit on these topics and Lyric Kinard (31:33.199) Mm-hmm. Yes. Lyric Kinard (31:44.357) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (31:46.995) this has to make me money. In fact, the thing I said is that within the first year, if I'm not making amount of money that I would make going and working and putting tchotchkes on the shelf at HomeGoods, I have to make that much money. If I don't make that much, if I don't clear at least that much money, I'm not, I don't have, this is not a real thing. Because I mean, you know, there's definitely a learning curve. There's time to, you know, to onboard and make, you know, get, but there was like, that was my low bar. That was my bar of, you know, because otherwise I did need to go and work, you know, there and put in in some ways that would have been so much easier because I don't I wouldn't come home from home goods and think about how I could have better arranged the shelf of syrups in the in the gourmet food section. I would come home and I would do my things and I would do my crafts and I would do my stuff and I wouldn't have to think about it. But I'm always thinking about badass. Lyric Kinard (32:22.021) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (32:32.496) You Maddie Kertay (32:42.996) and how I can better serve my community. And that can be problematic. We talked about that a little bit. So I really do try to take the weekends off and do other things that I don't that are not part of my world. And yet so the funny part is some of it does creep back in because like I do woodworking, it creeps back in because I love to share. I love to share those things. Lyric Kinard (32:50.737) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (33:04.389) Of course. Yeah, we're all makers, artists, I find we all want to try all the things, which is good. And when you turn that into a business, when you take the thing you love creating and turn it into the business, it's best to go in kind of eyes wide open. I love that you set that parameter for yourself because building Maddie Kertay (33:09.587) Yeah. Maddie Kertay (33:14.398) Yes. Lyric Kinard (33:34.404) a car is completely different than driving it. Building it is time intensive, it involves failures, it involves pain and labor and expense, right? So that's what we do when we first build our business. And then after that, it's tune-ups and tweaking and getting, you know, learning how to drive better and the occasional crash, yes, yes. And we all experience that. But if we go in there, Maddie Kertay (33:37.896) Yes. Maddie Kertay (33:48.468) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (33:57.013) and the occasional crash. Lyric Kinard (34:04.677) thinking it's all going to be easy and parts of it are easy and lovely. But if you know why you're doing it, then when you get to the hard part, it's worth keeping on. Maddie Kertay (34:10.484) Sure. absolutely. Maddie Kertay (34:19.91) Absolutely, mean, knowing why you're there. I mean, because the truth that matters is I do have a lot of flexibility in my time. I still have to work my 40 or more hours a week, but I don't necessarily have to do it on somebody else's schedule. So I am able to take care of neonatal kittens and I am able to get up during the night, which does mean I have to actually sleep a little bit more so that I have a later start date on those in those months. So, I mean, there are definite advantages to it, but it is not a one and done and like especially in this or like I don't have, I mean I have, because I buy it myself, I have to buy my health insurance off the market. Because my husband now, he is on Medicare, because he is 72, and almost 73, and so he's on Medicare, so when he wasn't working anymore, now I have to buy my insurance. So I've got like different expenses in that way. Lyric Kinard (35:16.987) Yeah, we have to treat, I mean, it's fine if you want to side hustle. If you're privileged enough that that's all you have to do. But going in with parameters with an understanding that this is a real business. That you, and we've talked already about your tracking data. You had goals set at the beginning. You are trying to create boundaries. Maddie Kertay (35:25.428) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (35:32.477) Yes. Maddie Kertay (35:39.934) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (35:44.935) boundaries around your business and your personal life. And keeping those in mind at the very beginning allows you to build something sustainable that you love, that, I mean, it actually is so much better, isn't it? That we get to do what we love as a business. Maddie Kertay (35:59.571) Yes. Maddie Kertay (36:07.492) absolutely. It's fabulous. I mean, I just I love that I can incorporate the things that are my passions together, but that was very, very intentional. I mean, that that was an intentional, you know, like you think of like that Venn diagram and how those things overlap. mean, so I very intentionally mashed together my beliefs and my craft and made a world and a job for myself out of it. Lyric Kinard (36:18.641) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (36:32.551) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (36:36.678) Yeah, it's fantastic. And that's what online can do for people. There's no gatekeepers. We can build our systems, build our business in whatever way suits our life. Again, I strongly encourage any of you out there who are at the beginning of thinking about this to go into it. Maddie Kertay (36:38.484) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (36:43.249) absolutely. Maddie Kertay (36:54.27) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (37:05.198) as a real business and go into it with plans and understanding your value system so that it does fit your life, that it does support you, that when it gets hard, you're like, it's worth keeping on. I'm gonna keep working at this because I know who I serve. Maddie Kertay (37:07.038) Kiss. Maddie Kertay (37:16.126) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (37:22.932) Absolutely. mean this so that's really interesting because as so I started at because we all pick like a Name you look back and I'm like was the badass quilter I mean it was a great name But and it came from a very very specific set of circumstances and how it all happened But I there's so many other things I love and that has expanded out as well Lyric Kinard (37:37.756) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (37:47.369) but it's also expanded out like who my sponsors are. Because like I have somebody who is a sponsor who is an accountant. Now a bookkeeper, should say actually technically bookkeeper who specializes in bookkeeping for creatives. Because she is also a quilter and she's also had other creative businesses and she's a fabulous bookkeeper and she really understands how to talk to people who are in this crafty business and how to under, you know, make sure that you're getting the best. And then I've got like other, I've got like health brands and stuff like that. The ones that I believe, really believe in. yeah, no, she would be a perfect, she'd be, she would be a great. Lyric Kinard (38:24.634) Interesting, we'll have to get her link in the bio. I mean, we're talking to business people. Maybe I can get her come on. Maddie Kertay (38:32.656) But to say I betcha Ava would love to come on because she's really great at that. And so it is so funny how many people like you like these, was it like that? Was that the seven degrees of Kevin Bacon? You know, like how many people that you like start touching and knowing out in the world because they come in through different ways. And you build this, you build this circle that I think of like a star with all these rays. Lyric Kinard (38:44.402) Right? Lyric Kinard (38:52.466) All right, and we get connected. Lyric Kinard (38:59.218) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (38:59.226) around it. so that's been super cool. I've really loved that part of it as well. Yeah. Lyric Kinard (39:05.682) It is so much fun making connections and building those communities. And the business people we work with are so much fun. I enjoy my quilters, my artists that I teach quilting and art to. But man, I have so much fun being with my colleagues because we get it. Maddie Kertay (39:10.462) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (39:16.829) yeah. Maddie Kertay (39:22.046) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (39:28.754) Yes, it is, and it's just different parts of you. It's different parts of your own Venn diagram. And I love how they overlap each other and they inspire other parts of it. So that's been a really positive experience to kind of circle out and circle further out in the world. Because like I said, there was things I didn't share and then I started like my woodworking. morphed into my quilting space when I started doing like wooden clappers and I started carving wooden clappers and stuff like that and so they started meeting up and then I started meeting like wax brands who like do woodworking stuff and like it's just been it's been a lot of fun. Yeah. Lyric Kinard (40:01.33) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (40:12.508) so much fun. It is. And it is so much fun to mix up. I always encourage people to get outside of your craft art silo. Mix it, mix it all up as much as we can. Well, Maddie, I am grateful to you for having created a safe space, especially for the diverse community, especially for the queer community who in Maddie Kertay (40:21.655) yeah, out of your bubble? Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Lyric Kinard (40:42.596) So many other places in their lives are not safe, not accepted. It affects my family too. So we need this and you have worked hard to make this beautiful, safe, welcoming environment and to go all, I've done it too, go all mama bear. When we need to, it... Maddie Kertay (41:03.796) Thank you. Maddie Kertay (41:09.085) Yeah. Lyric Kinard (41:12.476) So some people are going to listen to this and say, well, you're not actually accepting, but no, we will step in the path of anybody who's trying to harm our loved ones. That's not acceptable. I mean, it's just not acceptable. Tolerance, right? Maddie Kertay (41:23.38) Yeah, no No the pair the paradox of the paradox of intolerance Yeah, you know and that's like I I do not have to tolerate intolerance to be a tolerant person I mean that's just that's like that's it you can break it down you can do all the semantics on it and In the end we all get to build a community that we want to hang out with and so for me I built the community I opened the door I became the lightning rod Lyric Kinard (41:41.788) Mm-hmm. Maddie Kertay (41:52.987) that takes that hit because I'm able to. Some days is it hard? Yeah. But otherwise I'm really comfortable taking it in order that other people can find their safe community as well. That's excellent. Indeed. Lyric Kinard (41:56.931) Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Lyric Kinard (42:06.578) So, know, fist bump with you. That's awesome. Well, Maddie, where can we find you online? Maddie Kertay (42:16.87) So the two easiest places are on Instagram as the badass quilter and you can also just look at Maddie Kurtay and it pops up as well on Instagram or For more in-depth conversations and things that are not controlled by an algorithm That's over on patreon and then that's in the badass quilter community on patreon Lyric Kinard (42:36.998) Right, and we will have all of those links in the show notes. And one thing I love to ask before we leave, Maddie, what is the last thing you made? Maddie Kertay (42:40.36) Mm-hmm. Yes. Uh-huh. Maddie Kertay (42:48.03) The last thing I may, I'm a multi-project person, but the last, how about the last thing I touched? How about that? The last thing I touched is I'm actually making my own underwear. Lyric Kinard (42:55.067) Yes. Lyric Kinard (43:00.594) Well, fun. Maddie Kertay (43:01.51) I am. I really wanted some merino. I was like, ooh, because I've been really getting into more all natural fabrics and making sure that for my wardrobe and I got in some wool clothing, really loved it. Thought, ooh, I would really love that. Maybe try the merino wool underwear. They are forty dollars a pair. And I'm sure that they are absolutely lovely. But I am in kitten season right now, so I spend a lot of money on kitten formula. And so I ordered some beautiful merino wool and I'm making underwear. Lyric Kinard (43:07.634) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (43:12.668) Mm-hmm. Lyric Kinard (43:29.468) Well, there you go. It's so funny with sewists that often there's things like that that we don't realize, we can do those too. We can do those things too and finally have something that fits. my goodness. How would that be? That would be amazing. Well, Maddie, it has been an absolute delight. I'm so appreciative of your time and your willingness to come chat with my people. Maddie Kertay (43:39.218) Yes! I know it. I know. I know it's crazy. I know. Maddie Kertay (43:49.172) Thank Maddie Kertay (43:53.862) Yay, thank you for having me. It's been wonderful. Lyric Kinard (43:56.388) It's been a delight. And my friends, always speak for what you believe and keep creative. The world needs your beauty, your voice, your art, the things you make. Every good thing you put out into the world makes a difference. So never stop. Maddie Kertay (44:14.76) Okay.